John Hostettler is in the paper today criticizing the Bush administration for not arresting people at Monday’s rallies.
“It was stunning to realize that so many lawbreakers concentrated in one area were given a free pass by federal law enforcement,” said Rep. John Hostettler, chairman of the immigration and border security panel on the House Judiciary Committee.
If Hostettler knew of a particular individual committing a crime at Monday’s immigration rallies, he had a duty to advise the proper authorities of that crime. If he’s suggesting that the Bush administration should infringe upon the right of the people peacebly to assemble and to petition the government for a redress of grievances by having police harass citizens for their papers because they are brown and may be in the vicinity of non-citizens, perhaps he should spend less time talking and more time reading his Constitution.
“Like a moth to a flame…” Hostettler can’t help but put his foot in his mouth.
Could this be some attempt to undercut Ellsworth’s law enforcement credentials? Haha Perhaps Ellsworth should give John a brush-up course on “probable cause” “evidence” and “due process.”
I was at the Indianapolis Immigration March. Had I been asked for my Green Card, I might have been arrested since I wasn’t carrying one. Of course, my folk have all been Hoosiers since way before the Civil War … but I carried no citizenship papers!
In a somewhat related issue, have you heard about people being fired over this? I just heard a little bit on the TV this morning, but it sounded like some people lost their jobs since they didn’t show up for work.
Some that lost their jobs said they were not told they could loose their jobs by not showing up for work. There must be more to this…
The ‘immigrants rights’ issue is just starting to get people galvanized into opposing sides and its going to be very divisive for the whole country.Job firings might indicate the emotion building.Politicans are in a lose-lose situation. We have politicos like Hostetter advocating ‘just arresting people’ for public assembling. Ignorant trivialization of basic civil rights like that is bound to enrage more and more people.And then immigrant rights advocates REFUSE to distinguish between legal and illegal.Neither party can afford to lose ‘the hispanic vote’. Its a social and legal powderkeg,and its just starting
So what precipitated this? I don’t think anything has changed any time recently. Is it solely due to the legislation proposed by the Republicans? Or was there something more or less immediate that prompted introduction of the legislation at this point in time?
What I’m curious to know is that, among those who bellow that, “immigrant rights advocates REFUSE to distinguish between legal and illegal”, how many regard illegal immigration as malum in se and how many as malum prohibitum. I think that would help gain some insight into the issue.
Or perhaps not. People in this country who try to get right with the law often find themselves deported anyway. The BIA appears to be staffed by the so-called “Minute Men”, because their tactic seems to be to ship everyone out of the country regardless of what’s lawful or just. See, for instance, Judge Posner’s (of the Federal 7th Circuit) comments in a recent case.
A good economist would note that under the current situation, it might be more rational for an illegal immigrant to continue to attempt to fly under the radar, knowing their chances of continuing to provide for their families are better than they are if they just came forward and properly joined the tax base. But, for all the self-styled “capitalists” one finds on the right wing, there is a depressing paucity of rational, economic thinking.
Doug,
Border control never has an issue actually,over our entire history.Weve prided ourseleves with open borders and I dont think we dont HOW to close them or even if we should.Homeland Security,post 9/11 is in name only.And to secure our borders,we must deal with the illegals coming across the borders. That seems to be the catylist for the recent immigrant/border turmoil. What is unexpected is the huge mobilization of all kinds of immigrants and up to 3rd generation immigrants,legal and illegal, filling the streets for ‘immigrant rights’. The issues are converging and taken all togther they’re unsolvable since they’re at odds with the rhetoric and especially with the political goals of both parties.To secure the border we MUST know who is illegal and who is legal and thats contrary to those who dont want national ID cards and contrary to employers who want illegals to work in various venues, and contrary to politicians who dont want to upset hispanics( although many are illegal who arent hispancs).
What with 9/ll and worsening econonimc conditions due to NAFTA and CAFTA more and more illegals are trying to cross the border,and we are absolutely overwhelmed.
The Bush administration isnt to blame for everything but theyre the biggest bunch incompetent fools that have ever gotten elected. They use wedge issues like gay marriage and abortion,and they have had social conservatives eating out of their hands.They give tax cuts to the influential,and fill jobs by patronage that would make Mayor Daley proud and those who stand to gain will continue to support this administration. Too many have overlooked too much for too long.Any kind of issue has been expertly spun and they have immediate media coverage with talk radio etc.I became especially aware of how Bush admin has media control where it counts,because I drive cross country a great deal and every A.M radio has the same list of conservative talking points,and conservative ,pro-gov’t talk is everywhere on dial. There’s just no chance to hear anything contrary.
I just think the problems have all overflowed the ability of spin machine to control them by rhetoric.These politicians are going to have to put their heads on the block to solve these issues and americans are going to want some straight talk. But There are still many who dont care what happnes as long as they stay in control.So what will happen is anyone’s guess. Many of use may not even vote and that’s the tragic lost of faith in government,and it’s beyond party affliation.
What I’m curious to know is that, among those who bellow that, “immigrant rights advocates REFUSE to distinguish between legal and illegalâ€, how many regard illegal immigration as malum in se and how many as malum prohibitum. I think that would help gain some insight into the issue.
malum in se
I think legal and illegal is a basic concept.
Who is law supposed to work for? If youre an illegal youre going to be at disadvantage of anyone who has legal standing.
malum prohibitum
If what is legal and illegal is ignored on one issue than it a precedent for a good lawyer to contend that all the remaining issues are compromised completely changing the definition of the case.
and up to now illegal and legal wasnt an issue UNTIL we have to secure our borders,so if we had dealt with illegality as ‘a malum prohibitum’, we wouldnt have have a border. issue now maybe.
Unfortunately, Hostettler is playing to a certain constituency that is just as ignorant of the constitution as he is.
I’m not in Hostettler’s district, but when the feds attempted to make some immigration related arrests a few years ago at a local employer, some people I knew at the time said, “Well, it’s about time. The local police weren’t doing anything about all those people being here.” I had to inform my acquaintances that it is not illegal to simply be Mexican and be in the United States, nor does being Mexican amount to probable cause to arrest someone. Furthermore, if there were reason to believe that some people were here illegally, it would be a federal matter.
Steven Camarota is the Research Director for the Center of Immigration Studies. He spoke before a panel, which provides quantitative support against amnesty for illegal aliens as well as looking at increasing immigration.
I highly recommend you listen to his testimony. It is about 19 minutes long, but very, very informative. He does a very good job.
Based on data over a long period of time:
There is no such thing as a job an American will not do. Of all the job classifications in the United States, just 35 have a high fraction of illegal and legal immigrants, but still have less than 1/3. This means 2/3 or more of very job classification has Americans doing the same work.
As the economy has improved those American with the least edcucation have seen increased job loss.
Immigrants have a better net working system than Americans.
American workers face significant competition in Construction, Cab Drivers, Nannies, Maids and HouseKeepers where most are American workers.
1/2 the American born drop outs and 1/3 of the American with only a high school education are in occupations that have 15% immigrants.
States who saw largest share of immigrant workers saw largest decline in less educated American employment. The share of less educated American workforce declined by 5% locally and 3% nationally. Less educated Americans left the workforce in greater percentages in states with highest immigration.
Occupations with most immigrants have highest unemployment among Americans.
In 2005 there were 4 million American’s unemployed and 19 million who stopped looking for work. The share of unemployed with less education is way up. The U.S. does not have a 5% unemployment rate. The 5% unemployment rate is used to support immigration. Unemployment among less educated Americans is up 11% while it is 13% for dropouts. The perception is the U.S. is in need of less educated workers, which is not true. They already have the highest unemployment rate, the lowest wage rate and eployment participation among less educated had declined dramatically. They took the poorest workers and made them poorer.
Less educated immigrants and less educated Americans do the same kinds of work. There is no such thing as a job a American will not do. Allowing legal status to illegals has enormous implications for America’s poorest workers.
America is not short of less educated workers given the high unemployment rate and the high number of less educated workers who have stopped looking.
William Larsen,
Those are points well taken. Is the issue immigration or is the issue border control and national security? Americans WILL do any job: that’s part of our culture.But there is a concerted effort by some to encourage huge amounts of illegals so as to undercut wages.So we have to be wary of those who use the race card when that isnt the issue.Establishing a worker program without first establishing BORDER CONTROL and a means to determine who is legal will lead to massive exploitation and put the country’s security in peril( the current trend).Control the BORDER,THEN see what the solutions will be with immigration,legal or otherwise.And what makes the issues so muddled is that Organized Labor seems to be on the same side as those who want uncontrolled entry into country. But, controlling the border will be expensive.Who’s going to pay for it?The Bush administration solution would be to make it a local problem and say it’s solved. Dividing profit and ignoring the border is so much easier,and thats what so many actually want.
Lou, the issue covers all three. They are one in the same, just a different perspective. Can we close the border, yes? I truly believe we can close the border so illegals cannot get in based on the number they do now. Would it be costly? How much do we pay now to keep them out? We are using a human being to visually spot them. I think a fence would slow them down. Maybe mount some motion sensors out there that turn spotlights on protected by lexan to keep them from shooting out the lights. I am sure there are some individuals out there with some good ideas. I do not think we have even tried to close the border.
Illegal immigrant’s show the border is not secure, which means trained terrorists would most likely have little trouble crossing. This is a national security issue.
Illegal immigrants keep wage growth low as well as cause unemployment among Americans to increase. It is nice to pay low prices for things, but we then end up paying more in taxes to pay unemployment, SSI and Medicaid. What we need are productive Americans working before illegals.