So sayeth the Indianapolis Star. The story does, however, note that the later daylight is detrimental to ability to sleep well. But how important could that be?
This probably should have been another “some like it, some don’t” story. Instead, it comes off as most people like it, “pockets of resistance remain.” If there were data to support the former, that would be a fine angle. As it is, there appears to be only anectdotal evidence in the article.
Today is the earliest the sun will rise, with sunrise being at 6:17 a.m. (In Tippecanoe County). It won’t be dark until about 9:55 p.m.
If what time the sunrises is an issue,then CT is the choice!
If you are a drive in theater, your business has declined dramatically. If you are a restaurant in Fort Wayne, reports are business is down slightly. Some say going out to eat while it is so light out looses some of its atmosphere.
I myself do not like it. I open the windows a night to cool the house down and now must wait another hour to do so. In addition my kids have seemed to change their time tables by about one hour, getting up later and going to be later which affects my time table as well.
I have heard no personal endorsement for the time change. There were much bigger fish to fry than the time zone and it will result in no economic increase at all. People are not spending more, only differently.
So Indiana under DST is about having an endless party where you never need sleep.
Of course the Star put the DST question to folks out in the evening during summer vacation. Is this an unbiased sample? Shall we ask people again this October? Did we ask any of the cleaning staff in an Indy high rise dragging themselves into work this June with it pitch black outside. The Star article is a classic piece of DST puffery, a long tradition of the print media in this country. See “Spring Forward: The Annual Madness of Daylight Saving Time” by Michael Downing.
Now to the particulars of the story. Interesting was the part about ice cream sales being up. As said a Mr. Frey, owner of Bub’s Burgers and Ice Cream, “The volume has really picked up in that last hour because it is still light out.” I thought one of the reasons Hoosiers “needed” DST was because we were overweight and needed to get out after work to exercise. Seems some of us are getting out. Out to the ice cream shop to pack in some fat. But this is nothing new. DST classically hurts conventional dining and family meals in favor of “late” fast food and snacking. DST isn’t healthy.
Of course I suppose it is possible that eating ice cream while observing DST causes one to lose weight. I’ll admit I hadn’t thought of that possibility before. Do you suppose there is any chance that smoking is healthy when observing DST too? What can we expect next, “It’s light out so light up!”
Speaking of weight control, current medical opinion views getting a good night’s sleep as helpful in controlling weight. See
http://www.webmd.com/content/article/100/105686.htm
At least the comment about DST disrupting sleep made it in.
The article went on to note that “The owner of Tibbs Drive In Theatre on the Southside of Indianapolis said the increase is due to the fact his customers have developed a late-night habit.” So drive-in theater patrons are leaving even less time between flicks and the next day’s work. Yea, and I notice that my secretary comes in dead to the world the morning after major TV sports events of the previous evening. Great system this. We were told that DST would be good for Indiana’s economy. Is this because it destroys productivity meaning we have to employ more people to to the same amount of work?
Seriously though, DST in the hands of the Chamber of Commerce is about changing people’s habits to the benefit of certain commercial activities. Golf, fast food and shopping have long seen the connection and have exploited it, in part through propaganda campaigns which the print media has happily joined in. But other activities suffer, typically traditional dining, family and the arts.
What should we conclude?
DST kills.
See National Review Online at:
http://www.nationalreview.com/miller/miller200504010806.asp
My sister and brother in law who live in Sullivan county in Dugger hate it but want my county Martin on EDT so their work time will be the same as their home time.My sister in law had business in INDY last week and at the meetings many people said they hated the late sunsets this is the type of article I expected from the Star!I hope the DOT turns down the re-petition attempts by our counties in southwest Indiana ,light at almost 10:00pm is a joke.It`s hot and humid enough around here without adding a extra hour of daylight in the afternoon.
Keep in mind we’re doing “double DST” here. Yes, DST is stupid anyhow, but I get the “everyone else is doing it” thing. The “double DST” that we do now it what is really wrong. Going to Central would solve that.
I think there is a better chance of a time zone change than a repeal of DST. Not that there is a good chance of either…
Being on CT would help solve all the “it’s too light at night” problems, but then an equal number of people would be whining in the winter about the fact that it gets dark at 4:30. You can either have too much sunlight with your children in the summer or zero sunlight with your children in the winter. Everything is a trade-off.
Which brings us back to Eastern Standard Time year round. It fits our geographic needs and allocates the available sunlight quite nicely.
If we want something like year round EST back perhaps a long term, back door approach might work. During the 2001-2002 energy crisis California formally petitioned the federal government to allow states to uniformly permit DST year round. See http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/postquery?bill_number=sjrx2_1&sess=0102&house=B&author=karnette
Congress apparently gave some serious consideration to this:
http://www.house.gov/science/energy/may24/energy_charter_052401.htm
Now, if we can revive such a move to amend the Uniform Time Act to permit states to exempt themselves from returning to standard time in the winter, I think of a number of states that would “take advantage” of such a legal change to move in that direction. It is easy to imagine the entire east coast from DC north and east through Maine doing so. Illinois might well like the idea of year round CDT. Then the “everybody else is doing it” argument would break down, we could slip into the Central Time Zone and exempt ourselves from returning to Standard Time in the Winter. And year round CDT sounds so much more progressive than year round EST.
Doug,amen!Going back to Eastern Standard time would solve everything but we must not forget all the economic prosperity and great things the Governor and some others have promised by being on DST!Which is a crock!You can`t find any proof anywhere thats DST has economic benefits.
Indiana–the land of the Midnight sun.
“And year round CDT sounds so much more progressive than year round EST.”
Bingo! I think you have a winner, Paul. I can totally see the band of states you have mentioned doing that.
It recently occurred to me that two generations have been born and grown to adulthood since that day 45 years ago when the ICC place part of Indiana into the eastern zone and divided the state forever more. Many people under 55 think it is the natural order of things for Indiana to be in the eastern zone because I doubt they have ever been taught any different and they certainly have not been told by the news media. John Tuoby’s article gives some credence to this because it mentions the sun sets later because Indiana is at the western edge of the eastern zone. He conveniently failed to point out the sun rises later here also.
On the lighter side, I was going to write the Star blaming global warming on the extra sunlight we receive since most of the countries in the world now observe DST. I had second thoughts because someone might take it seriously.
Right on Doug and Paul. Whether you call it year round EST or CDT it would have been the perfect compromise, especially with big mouth Fred Upton’s bill that will expand DST next year. If you think people are complaining about DST now wait till next year when “spring forward” is expanded by two months. If you recall Fred Upton was one of those windbag Republican congressmen along with Mark Souder that don’t live in St. Joe county but insisted on butting in during the time zone debates up here.
Our dishonorable governor MMB personally took it upon himself to ruin what would have been a perfect situation year round.
Folks we have to turn this around and I think we can if we can get a Democratic majority in the House and kick MMB to the curb in ’08.
Chuckcentral-
Upton did propose extending DST from the first Sunday in March to the last Sunday in November, but it was reduced in the face of opposition from the Catholic Bishops and the airlines. DST begins the second Sunday of March and ends the first Sunday of November come 2007, “only” a one month extension.
I pretty much agree with your description of Upton. Pushing DST into November was pandering to a candy industry who thinks kids aren’t eating enough of their product. Upton’s comments regarding the bill were obvious in this regard. As noted at CNN at the time:
“Upton noted that the extension means daylight-saving time will continue through Halloween, adding to safety. ‘Kids across the nation will soon rejoice,’ because they’ll have another hour of daylight trick-or-treating.”
http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/07/22/congress.daylighttime.ap/
If the kids are staying out an hour later at Halloween how can they be safer?
Candy companies have long lobbied for a Halloween under DST, never mind that doing so will give us the later sunrises than occur even at the Winter solstice.
Safety my foot.
Is it possible that EDT reduces global warming by allowing us to use fewer lights in the evening (hence less electricity and fewer greenhouse emissions?)
I’m just playing devil’s advocate in this discussion. I actually don’t care what time we are on. I’m just happy it isn’t winter.
I would think that whatever emissions we forego because of light later in the day would be canceled out by emissions caused by recreational activity that takes place later in the day (and the driving necessary to get to the place of the activity.)
Don’t forget coal burned for air conditioning. I use a programmable thermostat to turn my AC off during the day and back on at night. Since being on DST, I have noticed that the temp outside when the AC kicks back on is higher longer.
Also, I’m a fan of opening windows instead of AC when I can, but again, the sun in the PM makes it less practical.
Finally, lights not burning at night are burned in the morning, more so as we have DST in November next year.
I personally know darn few golfers who are walking to the courses they play. How many lights do we need to turn off before we recover the carbon dioxide from the gasoline they burn?
The “energy use” studies relating to daylight saving (one by the DOT from the 1970’s and a second by the state of California during the 2001-02 energy crisis) focused only on electrical power use. Neither looked at other changes in behavior and the consequence for energy use overall. The DOT study was inconclusive for the oft cited contention that it showed we save the “equivalent of 10,000 barrels of oil a day” from EDT. This claim was specifically rebutted when the study was reconsidered.
Neither study dealt with an area in the western part of its time zone and ET Indiana is about as far west in its time zone as anywhere in the 48 states (excluding a few parts of the Michigan UP and parts of North Dakota). Put another way, for today, 22 June, sunset in Indianapolis will occur at 9:16 p.m. EDT. Sunset in San Diego, California will occur at 8:00 p.m. PDT. Even when we were on EST sunsets here occurred later about 10 and half months of the year than they do in southern California. That, and given the climate differences between here and California, suggest that the California study, and the electrical power savings it found, simply does not fit Indiana.
The Indiana Chamber has made some rather bloated contentions about how much money we will save on electricity based on the California study, while ignoring that California found savings primarily from shifting and reducing peak power demands, not primarily from total reductions in power used. During the 2001-02 crisis the power cost structure in California was such that electrical power costs during peak periods were extremely high.
I didn’t make myself clear. I think DST is energy neutral or too close to call. What I was referring to was the assertions that DST increased the number of sunlight hours. Someone from the Chamber made this claim last year.
Over the years both sides have made arguments and contentions that have never been proven or disproved.
This year Indiana offers an unusual opportunity to test many of these hypotheses. The 10 counties that didn’t change could serve as the control group. With 8 counties changing their winter hours and 74 counties changing their summer hours the 3 groups could be compared with each other and to their previous year before the changed.
Paul-wasn’t DOT tasked, as part of the bill that extended daylight time, to study the effect it had on energy consumption and to report their findings to congress?
If I had to make an educated guess as to time change being energy neutral, I would say we are now using more energy. We may use fewer lights, but lights use about 5% of the energy that A/C uses. For those who go to bed at the same time, the air is much warmer now when the A/C kicks in and if you work, most reset the thermostat while they are gone. Having it cooler in the morning longer really does not help with the A/C unless you are retired or work nights.
I can remember when Allen County back in the 60’s was on double daylight savings. My parents hated it and we kids loved it. It lasted a very short time.
I think what we had by not changing was the best of both worlds.
“wasn’t DOT tasked, as part of the bill that extended daylight time, to study the effect it had on energy consumption and to report their findings to congress?” Yes.
My objections to previous “energy” studies is that: (1) they are not energy use studies but electrical power usage studies, they do not take into account the possibility of increased recreational use of energy as Doug pointed out;
(2) the electrical energy use studies have never differentiated areas based on their longitude, that is, by their position in their time zone. The California study of 2001-02 covered an area where most of the population lived east of its time meridian.
Mr. Larsen’s comments raise an interesting issue for me, which is the role of A/C in the DST debate. I can easily see that DST would have been unpopular in the 1940’s and 1950’s because home A/C was essentially unknown. Having lived in a house in Minnesota in the 1980’s without A/C (and during the unusually hot summer of 1988) I can easily imagine that people wouldn’t have wanted to go to bed until well after the sun had set. Even into the 1970’s there was a tradition of small Indiana towns having fairs, dances and the like under the lights during the summer, even though the activities could have started earlier. Outdoor activity, and sleeping, during much of the summer was simply more comfortable after dark.
It is amusing to think that we “need” DST so that we can save on electricity by turning out lights while our electrical power gobbling air conditioning units run overtime (or course doing so means the A/C has a little less heat to pump out). I made a point last summer of watching for outdoor activity when the heat and humidity became oppressive. From what I could see, even when their was light at 7 or half past 7, the streets and parks were empty. A lot of things are now done inside that once upon a time would have been done outside (including sleeping, which people used to do on their porches). I have a real feeling that people are more afraid of the dark, and the crime bogey man now than they were 50 years ago. If you never have to see the dark than maybe we can pretend it doesn’t exist. (On this see the story Doug referenced from WSBT a few days ago: http://www.wsbt.com/news/local/3204956.html)
On the interaction of A/C, air temperature and DST it was long true that the deep south strongly resisted DST until the passage of the Uniform Time Act of 1966. By that time A/C, at least for the governing class, was becoming common. Arizona seems now to be the last real example of climate-based resistance to DST in the contiguous US.
The Star just can’t give up beating the drum for DST. When I checked it this morning (Saturday 24 June) they were running a “cyber survey” on Hoosiers’ reaction to DST, putting the question so: “Has Indiana’s change to daylight-saving time been a benefit for you?” Just in case the friendly reader hadn’t figured out how he supposed to vote, the phrase “daylight-saving time” linked to the very same article which Doug cited above. That article is titled”The outlook on DST: bright”.
Oh, and at least as of 1:36 p.m. EST, EDT was narrowly losing.
And just wondering, but why has Indy found it necessary to launch a major crime fighting effort this summer to combat “an alarming increase in crime”. Among the action items for the police is “Making weekly curfew sweeps to keep youths off the street late.”
http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060623/NEWS01/606230441&SearchID=73248652759497
I just now submitted this to the Star. Anyone want to give odds for it being published?
Last year Indianapolis had the latest winter sunrises of any city its size in the country. This year because we now observe EDT our city will have the latest sunrises every day. All of Indiana is geographically located in the central time zone but part of the state was moved to the eastern zone in 1961 by the federal government at the urging of some very powerful special interest groups. John Tuohy gave you the “bright side†of what amounts to double daylight time but the “dark side†needs to be told also.
Double daylight time imposes many unnecessary hardships and inconveniences. Here are a few examples. In my small neighborhood 5 different school buses pick-up before 7 am. This means these sleep deprived kids will go to school in the dark almost the entire school year. This is not conducive for education and will result in increased absenteeism which will inevitably leads to lower test scores and higher drop-out rates. Last year the NBA Finals games started at 8 pm Indianapolis time. This year they began at 9 pm EDT. I fell asleep doing the pivotal 5th game which was decided by 1 point in overtime. It finished too late to make the Star’s city edition and I had to get the results off the internet. What if this had been the Pacers in one of the most exciting games ever? Monday Night Football games will all start at 9 pm this year. Many fans will have to choose between football and work or school. Indiana is more divided than last year when all of the states clocks were set to the same time during the summer but this year some are on CDT and the rest are on EDT.
None of the promises made by the EDT advocates have been fulfilled. The crime rate in Indianapolis is soaring. My electric bill is 6% higher than the same period last year. Instead of going to Detroit or New York, Governor Daniels is traveling west to the Orient to seek economic salvation for the state. The main reason that was given for daylight time was it would put us in sync with the nation. On the day, April 2nd, we changed our clocks the sun rose in New York at 6:38 EDT, in Indianapolis at 7:28 EDT, and in Chicago at 6:32 CDT.