The Associated Press has a story telling of a poll indicating that privatizing the Toll Road and adopting Daylight Saving Time are unpopular with Hoosiers.
DST was supported by only 44% of Hoosiers and opposed by 49% while the Toll Road privatization had only 39% support among Hoosiers with 55% disapproval.
I sort of hold these issues to a double standard. I think the popularity, or lack thereof, with respect to DST is more significant than the lack of support for Toll Road privatization. DST seems like the kind of issue perfectly suited to a straight up popularity contest. How we synchronize our clock to the sun is basically a lifestyle choice with few complex policy questions involved. The most important aspect of the choice is pleasing the greatest number of Hoosiers. A statewide referendum would be, in my opinion, an appropriate way of deciding how to deal with the DST issue.
The lack of public support for the Toll Road would concern me less if it were good public policy. But, it’s not. That’s just my opinion, of course, but I have my reasons. I’ve read the lease and thought it through a bit. At the end of the day, I think it’s bad public policy to increase taxes solely on the motorists of northern Indiana to pay for roads in the rest of the state. I could still be wrong, obviously, but we have no idea how much information the poll respondents had on this issue and, therefore, no idea how informed their opinions are.
Doug,I agree with everything you said.Being from the Southwest part of the state I do not think it is fair to ask the people in Northern Indiana to pay what amounts to a extra tax to finance our roads down here.I also believe Representative Crooks who wants a statewide referendum on DST and whether the whole state except 3 counties should observe Central time is the only way to go.
Crooks will be on 22 magazine tonight for a short interview also his opponent Ron Arnold.I believe Crooks will win the race going away but we will see.I know we have put a sign in our yard for him and contributed to his
campaign.
On to my favorite subject time zones the word on the NWSC Crane Base where my sister and brother- in- law work is that Martin county will go back to Eastern time January 1 2007 just as the Ice-Miller petition asks for and everything else such as the NPRM being issued and comment period is just a formality since people working at the Base have been assured this is a done deal!We have heard local commissioners and county attorneys saying the same thing.If true Congress may as well do away with the Uniform Time Act and let the Governors set the time zone if the DOT is going to rubber stamp everything they ask for.
This is just what people are saying but I have had a feeling all a long this process is corrupted and will not be fair.We will see if the DOT is a independent agency above politics and doing what a unpopular Governor tells them to do all the time.If the DOT grants the petitions of the Southwest counties less than a year after moving them then they are a uncredible agency that in my opinion comes off looking foolish like local commissioners and the Governor.They will have to state everything they stated in the 61 and 18 page reports regarding regional ties being more of a benefit to the area than statewide ties was a lot of BS since they will have to come 360 degrees and state they were wrong about those statements!
I actually believe they should grant the Pulaski county petition and deny the Southwest counties petitions because Pulaski made assumptions other counties were going to be Central that were not granted and public opinion from what I know of it is overwhelming for Eastern time.This is clearly not the case in this part of the stste wher there is a split at best public opinion and alot of hard feelings plus the commissioners of the counties got exactly what they ask for in regards to their neighboring counties being on the same time from the DOT last January.
The person who owns the Dairy Queen in Loogootee is from Knox county and says which I have heard before that people are mad as hell about Rep Woodruff voting for DST when he said he would not and the fact that his wife who used to work at Toyota landed a unadvertised state job at the Vincennes district for $42,000 a year.Sounds like payback to me from the lieing,ball cap wearing.RV driving Governor to me!
Doug: I agree the Toll Road concept is bad public policy, and the current governor has no qualms about favoring one part of the state over another. This is definitely the mark of a poor governor. You have noticed that when I-69 gets down south it will be toll as well. The attitude is who cares about the poor saps down in Phillip’s area. Even though they are an integral part of Indiana’s economy. Toll roads are also more inefficient as they spend a lot to collect money. Gas tax is fairer/better. You need the gas tax for local roads anyway (it would be hard to collect tolls where access is not limited. Also access is poor because interchanges are often partial because they don’t want spend the money on extra toll booths.
Phillip: I was talking to a friend the other day, and the Federal Reserve came up in the conversation. As we know the Federal Reserve is the real word on commerce. They set interest rates to control commerce, do a lot of economic research, etc. Banks deal directly with the Federal Reserve Bank, and I certainly believe they are significant to commerce. So which FRB districts cover Indiana? If you live in Vigo, Clay, Owen, Monroe, Brown, Jennings, Ripley, Ohio, and northwad, you are in the Chicago district.. hmm.. sounds like Central Time. If you live in Sullivan, Greene, Lawrence, Jackson, Jefferson, Switzerland and south of those, you are in ST. LOUIS. Central Time again. The 1918-1961 time line is the same for Indiana as the FRB line. Merely one more reason to put Indiana back into CST/CDT. You may want to hammer that in your comments to the DOT.
Confusion?: It seems like some EST/EDT proponents are confused between GMT-5 and GMT-4. They seem to think EDT still leaves them on GMT-5.
One of the commentors said they had no trouble with their kids getting on a bus in the dark, in the past. That’s because they were always on GMT-5 never on GMT-4, which they are asking for. Others have commented that they wanted to go back to Eastern like they always were. Actually CDT is the Eastern that they always were on. If EDT were referred to as Atlantic Standard rather than Eastern Daylight, several Eastern supporters would scream “please get us off Atlantic Time, we don’t want to be with Nova Scotia.” We know AST and EDT are GMT-4, and CDT and EST are GMT-5, the latter has satisifed most hoosiers for several years. Those staying on CST/CDT will still get GMT-5 for 65% of the year.
Petition Comments: I don’t see the same confusion from Central supporters. Many of the submissions/comments are well documented and supported with solid research. They are also comprehensive and do not ignore services that may come from or be used out of state.
That the two biggest issues in Indiana right now are the Toll Road and DST show that Hoosiers are focused on the wrong issues.
How about fixing property taxes?
How about the future of a manufacturing state in an era in which manufacturing jobs are heading overseas?
Aren’t those a little more pressing than DST, or a workaround for the fact politicians were unable to make the Toll Road pay its own keep?
People should quit worrying about which time zone they are in and start worrying about the rape of the citizens of Indiana by our flannel shirted Governor who has given our toll road away for 75 years. What will he give away next? As for property taxes, no one wants to pay them but everyone wants they services that they provide.
Joe,simply put what “wrong issues” are to you are “right issues” to me,Phil,Doug,Gary and a whole lot of others. In my opinion the way Bait and Switch Mitch used deception and lies to force DST and eastern time on the public (the majority clearly did not want this despite Daniels assertions to the DOT) defines his character.He’s lied about this so what else is he lying about ? Of course there is the reason behind the lies -Lobbyists and special interests group money and as Phil has pointed out ,political favors. If you don’t think an issue where Daniels has demonstrably lied and flip-flopped is important to you more power to you. I can only hope that you’re in the minority come election time.
I have a question for some of the smarties on this site. During the time zone wars up here in St. Joe the local Fox affiliate WSJV 28 ran an on-air editorial featuring the station manager urging the commissioners to drop their petiton for central time. Their nightly news comes on an hour earlier than the other local stations so they would have clearly benefitted financially by being placed in the eastern time zone (most people would rather not stay up til midnight to watch the news). They are now running ads touting the fact that their news is earlier. I know this editorial was surely unethical but could it have been illegal? Please excuse my layman speak but in otherwords ; In your opinion is it legal to basically use your station to influence local commissioners to vote in such a way that would benefit your station and presumably you financially?
ps I have video of both the editorial and the commercial.
Every politician lies & takes special interest money. Find me one who doesn’t. Republicans do it, Democrats do it, everyone does it.
I’d rather have a liar/governor who tries to accomplish something. I’d understand people being upset about Daniels if they railed against him for the license branch mess – Silverman should be fired el pronto. Closing the branches was painful but it was the right move IMO.
I’d rather be on CDT than EDT but arguing about it is like fighting about class basketball. It will not change back.
TV stations can do what they want. Their goal is to make money, everything else is secondary. Why do you think none of them mentioned the folks who wanted CDT instead of EDT? Because EDT was in their best interests.
Yes Joe,our liar governor did accomplish something. He managed to sell out the majority of Hoosiers to special interests. But you’re wrong the toll road sell/lease might be a done deal but the time zone isn’t. All it’s gonna take is a change in the house and Mr. Arrogant’s removal in 08. People aren’t gonna forget this force fed BS come election time and they’ll be plenty of reminders. You sound like a guy that doesn’t mind that Bush lied and got us into an endless occupation that has costs us precious money and lives ie. the typical NeoCon dittohead.
The “at least he is doing something” thought reminds me of so many Bush supporters. At least when he had some support, it was commonly heard “I don’t agree with him on a lot of things, but I support him because at least he knows what he believes” or some such malarkey. Doing nothing is usually going to be better than doing the wrong thing. If one offers me an empty plate, and the other “does something” and offers me a steaming plateful of poop, I would opt for the empty one. Such an approach to life obviously puts me at odds with the average Bush/Daniels fan.
Nice try, but Daniels was the only major Republican I voted for in 2004. The rest of my votes went to Libertarians. Bush & Kerry were basically the same candidate.
If we’re going to paint each other with broad brushes and completely incorrect statements, you sound like the typical Indiana farmer who fought DST because it would throw off their chickens and who would rather live in a second-class state than deal with needed change. Fun, isn’t it?
Daniels is trying to get more jobs into the state, trying to balance the budget, and trying to make government smaller. Sounds good to me. I’m not 30 yet – I don’t want to pay for the mistakes of today’s politicians.
Name your charity and I’ll give them $100 if Indiana votes to stop observing DST and observe year-round Standard Time by December 31, 2009.
It’s not changing back.
History teaches us that Joe is absolutely wrong. The last time we observed daylight savings time, it only lasted 2 years and was repealed.
Children waiting for school buses in the dark practically the whole school year is one of the worst forms of child abuse that I can think of. Putting children in harms way for the sake of business is inexcusable.
And of course the people that suffer from seasonal affective disorder will suffer even more since the primary cause of SAD is morning darkness. If you think that businesses are going to run my life, you have another thing coming. In fact, its people that run businesses.
When worker productivity begins to decline (as a result of double daylight savings time and the lack of sleep it produces), like it has in Michigan, there is not going to be an influx of jobs into Indiana, but exactly the opposite. And if you don’t believe me, just take a drive through Michigan, and get the feeling that your in Indiana, but 20 years ago.
Our representatives and senators were voted by the people, for the people. And sure there is lobbyists and special interest groups out there influencing votes everyday, but if the general public makes their voices heard thru the election in November, alot of the lobbying can be all for nought. Just look at how many years it took to get daylight savings time passed. And it was only passed as a result of the governor twisting alot of arms of representatives and senators to vote against the wishes of their constituents. I guarantee that Troy Woodruff from Vincennes is not going to get re-elected. There are other representatives and senators that are also going to be shown the door. Once Governor Daniels is gone, alot of things are going to change. Over the years, Indiana has had some very good governors who were born and raised in Indiana. Governor Daniels is an import from Pennsylvania , and learned the tricks of his trade in Washington, D.C. He could care less about Indiana, and wonder how many foriegn bank accounts he has as a result of passing daylight savings time and the toll road lease.
I’ve talked to a large number of people at the three businesses I run, and don’t kid yourself, people are ticked off with Governor Daniels.
If you have a pulse of how people feel, I can predict that there is going to be a large turnover in both the state house and senate come this election. And all the money in the world from the lobbyist and special interest groups can control that.
Wait and see. Joe, get your check book out.
David Kinney,
hoosiersforcentraltime.com
Good points T and David. I stand by my quoted statement about Joe. Sounds like somebody fell for the phony RV, man of the people,I’m gonna do something, blah,blah,blah campaign. Don’t give me that Libertarian nonsense Joe. You’re a Repub . Admit it. It’s OK. Or perhaps more accurately a Dem hater.
But let me ask you this how many companies have been brought here because of DST? How many companies are just lining up to run to Indiana because we’re on eastern time? Michigan and Ohio have a couple of the worst employment rates in the nation. Guess what time there on?
T is right on when he said that Daniels has offered us a steaming plate of poop. But what’s worse than that is he’s shoving it down our throats.(Sorry for the visual) And it gets better. In the case of those southern counties that we’ll probably be FORCED to go to eastern time he and the turncoat commissioners are hiring big name law firms to LIE to the DOT and basically shovel the poop even more. Guess who’s paying these lawyers/shovelers? Why the taxpayers/constituents of course. True betrayal.
David is right on when he brings up loss of production from lack of sleep. There’s a loss of production not only at work but also in our schools. Take a look at all the fog delays we’ve had at schools and it’s not even October. Tired kids waiting in the dark to go to school. Thanks Mitch and special interests/lobbyists.
If anybody has any thoughts on my previous question about FOX 28 I’d like to here from you.
In the AP story Doug referenced it was stated that the poll was statewide. I assume the 49% opposed to 44% in favor was also statewide. But DST isn’t a statewide issue, it is only an ETZ issue. That raises a few questions.
Were respondents to the poll in the CTZ answering for themselves or for the ETZ? Folks in Valparaiso don’t put their kids to bed by the light of a 9 pm sun and CDT has never been controversial anywhere in the state. The DOT put most of the state in the ETZ and suggested we exempt ourselves from DST to achieve exactly that, year round Central Daylight. My hunch is that if the DST question had been limited to the ETZ the numbers would look worse for EDT supporters.
Second, EDT’s support is weakening. The poll results suggest some decline in support for DST from the last poll I saw. And we are just now entering “crunch time” for DST. The middle of September is when sunrises start coming later then they did back in April when DST started. And they are coming a minute a day later each day. The Indy Star tried to cement support for DST back in DST happy time in June with a series of goofy anecdotal stories about how people were gorging themselves on ice cream. I am more interested in seeing how people feel about it while gropping around in the morning darkness on their way to work.
Regarding toll roads, time of day dependent tolls can be a very efficient way of controlling congestion on urban roads. Toll roads have their place around Chicago, Indianapolis and in Lake County where traffic congestion imposes high costs on commuters and the transportation industry. In that light it is bizarre public policy to make the proposed I-69 extension a toll road south of Martinsville and free into Indianapolis. If anything, it should be the other way around.
I totally agree Paul. Tolls to reduce traffic have dual purpose. To me, it is just like taxes on gas or cigarettes. The government is taxing more for things that cost it more, roads and health issues. I wish we could see more things like that.
Mind you there is a difference between taxing to make up for something and taxing to effectively ban something. See Schumer’s famous $1000 tax on bullets.
Name that charity, folks. Standard Time isn’t year-round Central Daylight time.
Sorry, chuck, you’re wrong. Besides, with the big government policies the national Republican Party is now practicing, the Libertarian Party resembles what I’d consider the classical Republican Party. But that’s another thread.
I don’t hate anyone. I think Pat Bauer represents the worst of Indiana politics, and he’s the person holding back the Democratic Party in the state of Indiana, but I don’t hate him. When the Democrats toss Pat Bauer to the side of the road, they might get more of my votes.
Witness the Toll Road. Daniels comes in with a plan, Bauer just runs around yelling “no” like a madman, resorts to trying to whip people into a furor with “Foreigners are gonna own our roads!” nonsense that isn’t true, and doesn’t bother to come out with an actual counter-plan until it’s far too late.
With that kind of logic, Bauer should have opposed the Honda plant in Greensburg – because it’s a Japanese company – and held out for a Ford or GM plant.
Like Mitch or not, you have to admit he was right that the State was never going to raise the tolls, despite them needing to be raised.
Like Mitch or not, you have to admit he was right that the State was never going to raise the tolls, despite them needing to be raised.
Ya know, I never have thought of this: If the toll road had been managed the way it should have been BEFORE Daniels, it wouldn’t be a toll road anymore. From what I have heard here, the tolls roads should have paid for the initial construction long ago and been converted to normal roads.
From that perspective, I don’t blame Daniels.
“Standard Time isn’t year-round Central Daylight time.” To the contrary, year round Eastern Standard is exactly the same thing as year round Central Daylight. Before the Uniform Time Act much of Indiana was using year round Central Daylight. After UTA, the movement of the time line and the override of Gov. Whitcomb’s veto of DST exemption, we were back to where we started. We just had a new name for it.
The idea was originally to have the toll road be a toll road for 25 years and then be turned over as a freeway. That was the amount of time needed to pay for the initial cost of land and construction. That means that in 1981 we should have had a freeway. Problem is that since the start bonding was used to make additions and improvements along the road. Mitch is correct in saying the toll road did not make money last year. The problem is it was not supposed to make money any more than any other road is supposed to make money.
To be honest, I could care less about what he has done with the money from the lease sale. I do find it interesting that he wants each toll road county to spend their money rather than save and used the interest. If it is spent on infrastucture he then can point out in 2008 how HE is responsible for this item(bridge trail whatever) in his campaign. The guy is olne slick dude!!
So we’re on the same time as Chicago twelve months a year under Eastern Standard Time? I don’t care if Indiana’s on EDT or CDT; just pick one & be done with it.
Joe-
You seem to be a bit confused on the difference between time zones and daylight saving. While there are Central and Eastern time zones there are no “Central Daylight” and “Eastern Daylight” time zones. Daylight saving is a period during which you advance clocks to one hour ahead of the standard time for the time zone. However, because a state can exempt itself from “advanced time/daylight saving” it can in effect observe year round “daylight saving” for the time zone immediately to its west. That is what (ETZ) Indiana did for years. As a result we were, for 7 months a year, in sync with Chicago during the period Chicago advanced its clocks to Eastern Standard and for 5 months a year we were in sync with New York when New York was observing standard time. So you see, we did “just pick one”. In fact if we are to “just pick one” the only legal possibility is CDT. By repealing the exemption we condemned ourselves to changing time zones twice a year, switching back and forth between EST/CDT and EDT.
In that light your rhetorical question “So we’re on the same time as Chicago twelve months a year under Eastern Standard Time?” is simply nonsense. Of course we aren’t and for the simple reason that Chicago isn’t “on” Central Daylight year-round. Chicago is in the Central time zone and observes daylight saving in the Spring, Summer and Fall and standard time for part of fall and winter. Central Standard Time is one hour behind daylight saving time.
Joe,
There is no evidence that DST has ever created one job.Ron Arnold who is running against Dave Crooks in the 63rd district tried this argument on 22 magazine Saturday night by saying DST was the reason FED Ex was doing their big expansion which is a lie.A few months ago on Indiana Business Week a pro DST and Eastern time program it was stated this deal had been in the works way before the DST legislation was passed.
The pro eastern time and DST crowd always try to link economic development to these two things.The fact of the matter that these businesses and the Chamber of Commerce say we will suffer economically on Central time is rediculous.In my area of the state in southwest Indiana this is being proven wrong all the time.
Number one: Kimball International based in Dubois county say they will be hurt on Central time so what happens they go out and have two of the most profitable quarters in five years on Central time which they have operated on for 7 months of the year anyway for over thirty years!
Number two:a new clean coal burning electric plant is going to be built in Edwardsport in Knox county Central time.
Number three:Holiday World a large amusement park in Spencer county and supporter of Central time has just announced a 4.5 million dollar expansion and record attendance again in the Central time zone.
Now are all these things happening because of DST and the fact that these things are all in the Central time zone?Probably not but it sure shoots the hell out of the Chamber of Commerce and some Dubois county businesses arguments about having to be on Eastern time or the whole region will fold.
Next, yes this is a big deal and issue down here when you have thousands of people with families commuting to the Central time zone to work (if the counties are switched back) with some leaving work at 5:00pm and it already being 6:00pm back at their home counties thereby not getting home in some cases until 7:00pm or later.With Eastern Standard time this was only apprx 5 months a year and could be tolerated plus it was during the Winter months.
Politicians do make promises they break but by REP Woodruff breaking his about never voting for DST and our untruthful Governor breaking his about trying to move the whole state to Central time it effects thousands of people and their home lives.AS I stated before Woodruff will not be re-elected.We in Martin county took out our county commissioner who broke the tie for more time meetings in February and voted to re-petition for Eastern time breaking a 1-1 tie.He lied to many of us so he was voted out!
The Governor is a liar I can not say it any clearer!Think of this we had two enclaves of counties on year round Central time and just three in Eastern Indiana observing year round Eastern Daylight time.All he had to do is keep his campaign promise and recomend to the DOT to move all the state except the three counties tied to Louisville and Cincinatti to year round CDT and the problem could have been solved with the whole state except the three counties being on the same time people would have rejoiced!Instead we get this mess because it`s Eastern DST or nothing with the Chamber of Commerce and some businesses and the Governor is beholding to these groups!
Politicians who break promises that effect people in extremely negatve ways are voted out.This is not a Democrat or Republican issue.I have voted for people in both partys.I vote for positions on issues not a political party.This is the worst Governor I have seen in my lifetime.The DST and toll road issue will cost the Republicans controll of the Indiana House.To this I say good!Rep Crooks told me that Bauer said if the Democrats take control of the Indiana House we will finally have a vote on his time referendum may be it wont go anywhere but at leat it will not be killed like Speaker Bosma did to the referendum issue.People want to be heard on DST and time zones(vote) even if it is non-binding.That is democracy.
I’m not confuzed. It’s real simple – Indiana has three choices:
1) Be on the same time as New York all year.
2) Be on the same time as Chicago all year.
3) Be on Chicago time in the summer and New York time in the winter.
Option 3 makes no rational sense in a country in which 47 out of 50 states observe DST. I personally don’t care if Indiana picks option #1 or #2, just pick one and be done with it. Move on to matters that actually matter in Indiana – like why all the graduates from our universities leave for other states. Then again, maybe they look around at Indiana and figure they want to do more with their lives than deal with people fighting about time zones.
If you’re looking to Bauer for leadership, good luck. If he actually wanted to change the time back, wouldn’t he & his party have made that a campaign issue? The Democrats like their checks from the Chamber of Commerce too.
Phillip,
I couldn’t agree with you more. All you have to do is go out and talk to people to find out how upset they are about the time zone and daylight savings time. The Democrats, God willing, will take back the House, and hopefully gain more control over the Senate. Remember, daylight savings time passed the Senate by only a 28 to 22 vote, and one of them voting for DST in Northern Indiana was Senator Joe Zakas. If he gets voted out and a few other Senators, then there is a good chance of first repealing daylight savings time, then address the time zone issue. Its like we tried telling the Representatives and Senators during the daylight savings time hearings that they were putting the cart before the horse (i.e. passing daylight savings time before resolving the time zone issue first).
But don’t kid yourself, the daylight savings time issue and the rapid passage of the toll road lease were all done while the Republicans still had control of the House and Senate, knowing that these were such inflammatory issues that without control of both legislative branches, passage of these issues was next to impossible.
Whether you like or dislike Representative Bauer, he is the only elected official with enough guts and character to stand up to Governor Daniels (and ignore his propaganda about new jobs, a balanced budget,etc), and tell him to stick it in his ear. I, for one have to applaud Representative Bauer for that, and how he tried to fight Governor Daniels on many of his back stabbing issues.
Maybe this whole thing isn’t a Democratic or Republican issue, but isn’t it ironic that after two years of record gas prices, they are suddenly dropping ( and will continue to) right before the election. And isn’t it ironic that Governor Daniels hands out the toll road checks to the toll road bordering counties less than two months right before the election. On a national level,look at how the Republicans handled the Hurricane Katrina disaster (many of the poor are still trying to put their lives back together, and the Republicans could care less). If you haven’t seen it yet, watch the program 9/11 toxic legacy on the Discovery Channel about how the firefighters, policemen and other workers who worked on ground zero immediately after 9/11 have developed respiratory ailments linked specifically to the toxic particles that were present in the air. How the head of the EPA flat out lied, and said that the levels in the air were safe when no measurements were ever taken. All this just to get Wall Street open ASAP, but at the expense of so many lives. I thought that Republicans were suppose to represent Christian values, but if putting big business ahead of the safety of workers at Ground Zero, and saying the heck with the poor in New Orleans and Mississippi is how the Republicans operate, then they certainly don’t represent Christian values. I will be voting strictly for Democrats, and will put on my marquee sign in front of my business “Send a message to Governor Daniels, vote Democrat.”
The ISTEP tests are coming up. I’ll predict because of daylight savings time that you will see a significant drop in test scores in those counties observing eastern daylight savings time due to the lack of sleep and seasonal affective disorder in children.
Oh, and by the way. One of the selling points for eastern daylight savings time was improving the quality of life, such as giving people more time to exercise, enjoy the parks, and do other outdoor activities, thus reducing the rate of obesity in Indiana. Unfortunately, like so many other claims that were made by the Indiana Chamber of Commerce, they were based on supposition and conjecture. A Center for Disease Control study found that in 2004 Ohio (on Eastern daylight savings time, and our next door neighbor) rated in the top 10 in the rate of obesity (Indiana was not found in the top 10). So all the scientific evidence substantiates the Central time zone as the healthier and more productive zone.
And if you need any futher evidence, just go to hoosiersforcentraltime.com, and remember that I was there for all 3 daylight savings time hearings last year, as well as the time zone hearing in South Bend. So I am totally aware of all the manipulation that went on in getting daylight savings time passed. Trust me, the newspapers and TV stations are only presenting what they want you to hear (censorship). I pray that God takes care of this whole situation for the sake of families and their safety.
David Kinney
hoosiersforcentraltime.com
Right on David,
Why do you think they call them NeoCONS? And unfortunately Joe’s one of their victims. See Mitch doing his man of the people RV cruising bit. See Mitch take all the credit for the Honda plant. See Mitch pass out oversize “lottery” checks surrounded by his Repub cronies at staged media events. See Mitch take “drive-by” pot shots at South Bend during said cronies fundraisers. See Mitch avoid townhall meeting in South Bend because he knows he’d have his ass handed to him by the people.(Gutless) etc. etc. The list goes on and on with this bait and switch lying coward. Alas some people look at this as “leadership”.
I will agree that Bauer could use an image makeover. He too often looks tired and comes off like a grinch sometimes. But at least he’s trying to take a stand for the people and like a whole lot of other people he’s probably tired of all the NeoCon BS coming from Indy.
PS I too find these gas prices very interesting. Gee, what a NeoConincidence. Hey let’s raise the terror alert again.
EDT is in Indiana to stay until March 2009 at the earliest. Daniels will veto any bill that happens to make its way out of the committees, House, and Senate. Secondly, any politician would be stupid to even try and bring the issue back up again. It is political suicide – like so many good things for the state seem to be these days. And for all those who think EDT has done nothing. There are 2000+ new jobs coming to Indiana via Honda by 2008. Why were they looking at Ohio and Indiana? They needed a location with easy access to their plant in Ohio. I do not think that EDT was a deciding factor, but I am sure it helped Indiana in the running. If Indiana were in CDT, Honda would have to deal with an hour difference between two plants only a couple hours apart – both of which were supposed to be working together. Also, the location that was chosen was due to the close proximity to both Indianapolis and Cincinatti, considering the plant will be in the middle of the two cities. Honda looks to bring some of its workers from these two cities. Do you not think it would be a little less convenient if the two cities were an hour apart. Regardless of all the personal preferences their are for Central time, especially closer to the time zone line as we get, Indiana business leans to Ohio and Michigan more so than to Chicago. I know this from first-hand experience. Could businesses operate on CDT? Yes, but it is not the best option for most. As for Daylight Saving Time, it has solved a large problem when it comes to confusion. It is nice to finally be on the same platform with the rest of this country. Their is some uniformity when it comes to communicating with people. DST will be in Indiana forever for that very reason, whether you all like it or not. The only hope for that changing would be for the entire country to stop observing. As for the time zone, CT supporters can only hope to get enough people in the committees, House, Senate, and a Governor who is willing to bring up the issue again, angering a good number of people who do support EDT and the majority of the business community. Then you must hope the DOT would even consider switching Indiana’s time zone, which would probably never happen because the biggest supporters of ET are those who are most important when making the decision – commerce.
Guys I will tell you right now the variable in this equation that will change the entire state’s mind on CT /ET. ISTEP, if our scores continue to drop,which as an educator I hope they do not, the issue could easily become tied to test scores. Here I sit at 7:00 in the morning preparing to give what could argueably said is the most important test a teenager will take in his/her yoing life and it is DARK outside! Go ten miles to the west and it is only 6:00. Kids at those schools are only getting out of bed. I see it every day in my classes the students are tired. Tired students poor performance.
Now wait, if you think I am a NEA type you are wrong. I belong to the organization, but do not reaaly support thgeir actions. I like to think of myself as a “freeagent type”. More on time, those of you who say that CT results in students getting home in the dark, for the most part that is incorrect. I live in an area of the school district where five buss route converge and not ONE of the buuses goes past my house in the winter after dark taking students home.
I still can’t believe that chuck & some of you folks think Democrats are these bastions of political good. Politicans are politicians and have much, much more in common than they have in conflict. Kerry wasn’t all that different from Bush when you got down to it – they both just have different special interests they have to entertain on occasion. Republicans throw conservative Christians a bone every once in a while to shut them up, Democrats do the same for unions & advocacy groups. It’s all a game.
Oh, and if you really want to help the test scores of high school kids, you’d send them to school around 8-9am and do standardized testing in the afternoons.
As far as DST having an effect, sorry:
Dave: I’m not really in favor of Central Time (I’d rather go back to year round EST), but I can attest that the late sunsets did not motivate me to work outside or go on walks more. Although it was not an unusually hot summer, it was usually too warm in the evenings to want to work up a sweat. By the time it was cooler, it was too late to do anything. Who wants to go on a walk at 9:30 p.m?
It was also too dark in the mornings to get up and work in the yard or go on walks before work. While it is only anecdotal evidence, most people I talked to said that being on EDT this summer really messed up their morning exercise plans. I don’t know what time people go to work in Marion County, but around here, most people have to be at work by 7:00 or 8:00 a.m. When the sun isn’t up before 6:00 a.m., there is not enough time to get in any exercise before getting ready for work or school.
As for Honda, it is an international company used to doing business all over the world, even in places that don’t observe DST. The people at Honda are smart. I’m sure they can add and subtract 1, 2, 3, etc. and work out any time zone issues with plants in different locations. Unless there is evidence to back it up, we cannot assume that if Indiana had not gone on DST that it would have been a dealbreaker for the Honda plant.
For those wondering how this issue is playing out docket number OST-2005-22114 “Time Zone Boundaries in the State of Indiana” has now moved to 23rd place in the DMS Web Top 25 Requested Dockets” with 38,090 hits. As was noted before, considering that this docket was opened about 13 months ago and most of the other docket numbers are much older it’s interesting. Once the DOT issues information on Southern Indiana and Pulaski up North that’s sure to increase the hit totals.
Way to go Larry. That’s exactly one of the many points me,Dave and other central/correct time zone supporters have been saying all along. Why is central the correct time zone? Quite simple geography triumphs all deciding factors. At least that’s the way it is supposed to work when partisan politics,special interest group money,and a certain lying bait and switch governor’s relationship with the DOT doesn’t get in the way. As we’re all well aware Indiana is now the only state that lies geographically in one time zone but observes another. Poor job performance and as Larry points out maybe even more importantly poor schoolwork are just a couple of the negative byproducts of this time zone abomination that the PEOPLE did not want.
Josh,if people are still confused after doing something for over 30 years I would have to suggest they have a lot bigger mental issues to deal with rather than what time it is. Face it that whole confusion thing was something “bait and switch” and the boys overexagerated and cooked up to get their way(eastern-campaign money from special interests). If commerce should be the deciding factor then Chicago and LA could make a case to be on the same time as NY. It would be ridiculous for them and it’s ridiculous for us.
The idea that Honda couldn’t adjust to being in different time zones is pure folly and sounds like something that current House speaker Bosma or those con men at the chamber of commerce would dream up.
chuckcentral,
Exactly right.The argument the region of Southwest Indiana and for that matter the rest of the state would not thrive on Central time is rediculous.The DOT stated in their final ruling and again in the first Pulaski county turn down to go back to Eastern the importance of regional ties to a area of counties such as the Southwest counties relationship to the counties that have always been on Central time to the South of us and the third largest city in the state Evansville less than 60 miles from Loogootee in Martinj county.
How the hell does the rest of the country to the west of Indiana manage to conduct business with the East Coast since they are not on the same time as them.For Gods sakes this is the twenty first century not the 1800`s.Were dealing with email,faxes,text messaging not the Pony Express.This Chamber of Commerce argument about the Southwest counties needing to be on East Coast time has been disproven over and over again in submissions to the DOT docket by Central time supporters who have done their own research which is quite frankly better than the research done by Ice-Miller who wrote the new petition for the counties considering we found two lies in it on page 8 and page 29!
I care less about which time zone we’re in than I do about DST. DST sucks and we should get rid of it everywhere.
Without DST, your time zone is always a constant offset from UTC (Universal Coordinated Time).
And, contrary to what any howling chimps will tell you, in true global commerce, no one cares what time zone you’re on. All anyone has to know is their own offset from UTC, and they announce their availability for meetings in UTC. All conversions to local time are done strictly by those who are in the best position to know.
None of this, “you’re in time zone X, so I subtract two hours in the summer”, or “you’re in India, so, uh, you’re nine and a half hours ahead of us”. (Look it up.)
I work for a small software engineering firm, and we deal with other firms in many other time zones. Using UTC for all time coordination in far and away superior to any other approach.
The bullshit you hear about Indiana being a “laughing stock” because its “time jumps around” (or did) is exactly that: bullshit. People with real business to conduct across timezones
Everyone else is either shamefully ignorant (and deserves to be outcompeted in the marketplace by their rivals who’ve bothered to learn anything about timekeeping since the development of transcontinental rail), or blowing smoke up your ass.
Branden Robinson,
I would be fine with going back to year round Eastern Standard time and I am a huge Central time supporter but being from the Southwest part of the state many of us just do not want to be seperated from the counties to our South and Evansville all year which is what we would get with Eastern Daylight time.We had previously just been seperated(time) just around 5 months a year from end of October to first week in April.
As to the rest of your thoughts AMEN!I have been saying the same thing over and over in submissions to the DOT docket letters to the editor in news papers everywhere I can.If you can not operate a business dealing with different parts of the United States in different time zones you are in trouble.The Chamber of Commerce rhetoric that the whole state will fail on Central time or be hurt on Eastern Standard time what we had before this mess is BS!
Chuckcentral-Question, How long do you think the people of St. Joe County will put up with being tied to ET because of Elkhart’s wish to be in line with Cass County Micigan? I for one do NOT see it happening very long. As the western side of St. Joe continues to grow, and New Prairie schools lead the area in ISTEP performance things will have to change. People are not real happy about having a time zone line between the elementary school and the town library! Any thoughts? talk about a lack of convience of commerce???
When will be there be an anouncement as what the procedures will be for this next round of TZ hearings,or meetings or whatever? Since USDOT sets the date for shifting any time zone,and there has been no deliberation,I dont think it’s feasible that anyone from USDOT has assured anyone that any time zone shift will take place on New Year’s Eve.
What’s been lacking from the start is public announcement as to what will be the next procedure.
Constant ungrounded speculation conjures up bogeymen and plots. Either the govenor’s office or USDOT themsleves should outline what is to come,where and how,and who will be involved.
There’s always the impression that maybe nobody knows what will happen next and there’s a continuing frantic scramble to come up with a procedure.
Lou,
All I know is what the Daviess and Martin county counil attornys said in the local papers the second week of August which was that the joint petition will be studied three or four weeks by the DOT,they will then issue a NPRM and thirty to sixty day comment period with no hearings this time and a final ruling in November for the counties to go back to Eastern time on January first as the Ice-Miller petition asks the DOT for.
The commissioners and people all over the NWSC Crane Base say this is already a done deal.Now I have no Idea if they know what they are talking about but this is what we are hearing down here.I hope the process is on the level but have no confidence this is the case.
I say this because first the DOT gave a extremely cold response to Pulaksi county in their first re-petition effort and told them they had to have more evidence or a new petition in by the end of June enter Governor Daniels with the law firm Ice-Miller.
Somehow the Southwest counties managed to not have to have their petition completed and signed off on until almost mid August plus in the begining before bait and switch Mitch got involved with the process they were told by the DOT they could not submit a joint petition but rather each county would have to submit their own.Enter Governor Daniels again and somehow they manage to get to submit a joint petition.The whole process smells to me but I have been wrong before.I felt like this week or next week some announcement will be made but I`m just guessing.
Branden Robinson:
Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!! I’ve said pretty much the same thing all along. Yet certain people told me over and over how those of us in Wayne County were an anomaly and that the rest of Indiana couldn’t handle working with different time zones the way we do (or did!) here on the border with Ohio. Please! People who are truly involved in international business work from UTC or GMT. Most of Indiana was at minus five hours GMT year-round before April 2, 2006. What was so difficult about that?
Furthermore, the time zone we are in should make sense geographically, and not have anything to do with some yahoos in Indianapolis who can’t figure out how to do business with New York. What rule says that we need to be on the same time as the places we do business with?
No matter how you dissect the issue, DST is bogus. No data existed before or after the dubious extra-legal shenanigans that brought it to bear shows an economic benefit. If it did, it would be because other states were decieved in believing so 40 years ago.
Morning = Emerging sunshine.
Evening = waning sunshine.
Midnight (to a rational human) = 1/2 way through the dark period of our 24 hour period.
Mitchnite = Hours after awakening. Remember it was not a respectable legal process that imposed this nonsense. Fire the legislators responsible for the butt kissing to MMM.
I feel this issue is one of State Politics where the residents of Indiana are being ignored. I thought we lived in a land of the people where the “People” made the ultimate decisions? There are big plans to build this road and the towns, city, farms or whatever they are going through don’t want this. But does it really matter? The Supreme Court ruled in the Kelo case that a person’s land can be taken from them as long as the end result will be for the “Public Good.”
But of course the public will use it for good, the question is, instead of embarking upon yet another construction project in a state where construction has become so very important, why can’t we just save a little money and expand the roads we have and make them major highways in Indiana. Looking at the proposed alternate for I-69, it seems more reasonable to put $ into SR 64, SR 57, US 50, US 231, SR 37 and SR 39. This way you are making an investment in your economy while serving the greater good for the greater people, the citizens.
Not really addressing your main point, but to pick a nit, the Court in the Kelo decision didn’t say that the government can take land if it’s for the public good. The United States Constitution says that, and (I believe) that provision was merely enshrining a principle that had existed for centuries under English Common Law.
What the court said was that the comprehensive local plan which, pursuant to a state law, provided for condemnation to develop a mixed public-private use of land in a deterioriating area of town fell within the definition of “public good.”
If this is bad policy, the real beef would be with the state legislature. If it was a bad plan, the beef would be with the local officials. If railroads and investor-owned utilities can condemn land, I don’t see the Supreme Court as being too far afield when it found that the mixed public-private development scheme was within the Constitutional parameters.
But, like I said, I digress.