Mike Smith has an article for the Associated Press discussing the Democratic control of the Indiana House. Because of his decisive vote in the Daylight Saving Time vote after having promised his constituents he would “never” vote for it, I am most pleased that Troy Woodruff lost to Kreg Battles. I am less pleased about the loss of Steve Heim, the other incumbent who appears to be a DST casualty. Rep. Heim’s critical pro-DST vote was one of those where he could have kept the DST bill dead but instead voted in favor of a motion to reconsider. On all the substantive votes, he voted against it. But he enabled Speaker Bosma to take unusual procedural steps that allowed passage even though the vote initially went against DST.
I liked that Rep. Heim actively blogged about the legislative process, and, even where I disagreed with him, he seemed like a reasonable sort.
Now, we’re likely to see some interesting fireworks between Gov. Daniels and Speaker Bauer. Not only do they have policy differences, they also seem to personally dislike each other. It will be the irresistable force against the immovable object.
For the most part, I take a “gridlock is good” approach to state government. If not too many new laws get passed, I probably won’t be terribly upset.
Figures, Indiana actually starts moving in the right direction economically, and people put a halt to it because they do not like change. I knew Indiana’s backward thinking would eventually come back to bite us in the butt once again.
Thanks to the dishonesty and thinly veiled deceit of Bait and Switch Mitch the majority of the state is stuck in a geographically incorrect time zone that the people did not want.Please explain the economic benefits of that(other than the Republicans campaign coffers and a state job for EX-representative Woodruff’s wife) Josh, you obviously think spitting in the face of and lying to the voters that put you there is moving in the “right” direction(pun intended). I beg to difer.
Hopefully now that that bum Bosma, who never saw a wedge issue that he couldn’t exploit(religon,gay marriage etc.)instead of working on real issues is out of there, maybe we can at least get a referendum on DST .That way the people can decide.If you recall that’s the way a democracy is suppose to work.
Death to the Neocon dictatorship. Hallelujah! I’m lovin’ it!
If you voted Democrat thinking Indiana was going to drop DST (or push very hard to get it changed) you got used. The Indiana Chamber of Commerce will direct some donations around and that issue will go away.
If Bauer wants to truly be a leader, he needs to offer ideas instead of just yelling “No!” all the time. Indiana needs people willing to move the state along, regardless of the party. Bauer seems more interested in “protecting his turf” than moving this state along.
Right on Joe. We need leaders that look ahead, and not behind. Bauer is not one of them.
Does anybody else find it absolutely hysterical that political careers have been made and lost in Indiana over an issue that requires something as simple as re-setting your clock twice a year?
No wonder the rest of the country thinks we’re hoosier hilljacks.
No, I don’t find it hysterical, because the DST issue isn’t about changing clocks.
I’m under no illusions that a Standard Time bill could pass with a Republican Senate and Mitch Daniels as Governor. At the moment, I’m just glad there was some serious payback for messing with the issue. Probably the best that could be hoped for at the moment is a referendum for putting the state entirely on Eastern Time or entirely on Central Time combined with a committment by the General Assembly to submit a petition to the USDOT to put the entire state in the winning zone.
Pila, I agree, in reality it’s not about setting clocks, it’s about joining the rest of the nation in the 21st century and becoming more efficient. Anybody in business appreciates as much continuity as possible with customers/vendors/etc…I was pointing out how such a simple no-brainer (whether cenral or eastern..either is fine with me) can become such a freakin’ burden for the average hoosier. Perhaps the appropriate conclusion to draw is, some hoosiers obviously have TOO MUCH time on their hands.
Tim: I disagree, respectfully, of course.
Not all of the rest of the nation is on DST. Furthermore, as I’ve said before, anyone truly engaged in business across time zones on a regular basis ought to have been able to have figured out that most of Indiana was on EST all year–that goes for people here in Indiana and people elsewhere. If most of Indiana has to be in the eastern time zone, for whatever reasons, then DST is not a good option for our geographic location.
Pila, Why is DST not a good option for our geographic location?
Oh, and by the way, the only two states that do NOT observe DST are Arizona and Hawaii.
“Payback for progress: the Indiana way.”
What’s the point of a time referendum? It won’t be binding. Irony would be a binding referendum on the time issue when these same legislators won’t give cities/towns/counties more flexibility for income sources other than property taxes.
Let’s move on to fixing the tax structure. Let’s get I-69 back down the existing SR 37 route and save the state hundreds of millions. Let’s get our Indiana students smart enough to go to Purdue & IU so Indiana can compete in an economy where manufacturing jobs will be harder & harder to find. Let’s focus on real issues.
“Pila, Why is DST not a good option for our geographic location?”
For the same reason DST/Eastern time would not be a good option for California. We are simply not in the eastern time zone geographically. Divide the globe into 24 segments and assign time zones accordingly /GMT. Why do people have such a hard time wrapping themselves around this concept. It is the only standard of time. A fifth grader can figure it out. Of course a fifth grader doesn’t have a mil or so to contribute to Republican campaigns like the chamber of commerce does. Thanks Kevin, we owe you one.
Tim: chuckcentral answered before I could. Indiana does not belong in the eastern time zone, or certainly, not on *EDT* for over half the year. I don’t particularly like the idea of sunsets between 4 and 5 in the winter, which happens under central time. But I’d take that over 9:45 or 10:00 sunsets in the summer coupled with the sun rising an hour later than it should under EDT. And, as I’ve said before, people who are routinely engaged in commerce or other activities across time zones can figure things out. Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
But isn’t Michigan on EST/EDT, and aren’t we directly south of Michigan?
Put us in a time zone and forget this falling back in the fall crap. Dark at 5 pm or prior is just stupid. And thanks to the wisdom of my government, I lose an hour if I drive 15 miles east or 30 miles north, but can drive all the way to the New Mexico line and still be on Perry County time. Makes a damn lot of sense.
Oh, Karen, you beat me too it…yes, Michigan is on EST. Their civilization hasn’t collapsed yet, and neither will Indiana’s. We’re stuck at the edge of a time zone, so it’s not going to be ideal either way. And I don’t get how you can complain about the sun going down at 9:30 in the summer – who was ever up at 5 am to enjoy that daylight anyways?
For starters, I get up at 5:30 AM and try to get my kids down around 7:30 or 8:00 PM. So adding an extra hour of darkness to the morning and an extra hour of light to the night isn’t ideal.
As for Michigan being on EST, EST isn’t the problem. EDT is the problem. Indiana was on EST year round for 30 years without a great deal of trouble.
If you look at a map of the national time zone situation, you’ll see a big bulge in the west. That’s Indiana. The parts of Kentucky and Tennessee to the south of us are on Central, as are Alabama and Mississippi. As for Michigan, I believe the densest population centers are located in the eastern part of the state which are north of Toledo Ohio and are farther east than anywhere in Indiana.
Lance,
I know of very few people that do not get up that early. About 3000 employees who work the day shift at Toyota (Princeton, IN) wake up that early and all of the surrounding suppliers. I leave my house at 5 AM and if I leave 5 minutes later HWY 41 is packed with people traveling to Evansville to work. Wake up and smell the coffee. Even the “Bob & Tom show” comes on at 5AM Central time. 5AM in the morning is when it all happens. Your letting your life sleep away.
Since I don’t live in Indiana anymore the time zone debate doesn’t really affect me, it does sounds like Indiana belongs in the Central Time Zone, as does more of Michigan and probably more of Kentucky. I got to visit with a buddy from high school last weekend who lives near the Indiana state line but who lives in Ohio. The concern there seemed to be an increasingly arrogant Republican Party as seemed to be the concern nationally. I split my ticket when I voted Tuesday morning before going to work. Anne Northup, a 5 term incumbent was booted out of office by John Yarmuth. It was interesting reading Mitch McConnell’s take on the elections in this morning’s Courier-Journal. There are rumors floating around here that Anne Northup may run for governor in Kentucky next year. With all of the baggage that Ernie Fletcher is carrying from the merit hiring scandal she may be a viable alternative. Hopefully one thing both parties learned from this election is not to get too arrogant when they are entrenched in control. One great thing about this country is the fact that when the people speak, our elected representatives (whose salaries we all pay), listen. It’s a shame it took a shellacking from the votors Tuesday in order for Rumsfeld to have his ass kicked out. I hope Evan Bayh decides to run for President in ’08, I remember when I lived in Indianapolis in the mid 80’s (before he was elected Indiana Secretary of State) that a lot of folks then thought he was a good centrist. Hopefully both parties have learned through this election cycle is that the “divide and conquer” mentality is a thing of the past. That would be good advice for Karl Rove to heed. Great game for U of L, they are leading Rutgers right now, 25-14 with 8:14 left in the third quarter.
A heartbreaker for U of L, they lost 28-25 to Rutgers.
Lance: I don’t know what time you go to bed, but I still have to get up and go to work at the same time every day, daylight saving time or not. There was no great benefit for me to have late sunsets and late sunrises during the summer. I don’t work in my garden or go shopping at 9 or 10 p.m. and don’t know anyone who does. I didn’t like having to run my air conditioner longer under EDT because it was hot well into the evening.
And yes, I did used to enjoy being able to get up early in the summer to work in the yard before it became hot. Sometimes I even did that before going to work. Under EDT, I could not even think about watering the garden before going to work. By the time it was light out, I had to be up and getting into the shower so that I could be at work on time. Furthermore, I know lots of people for whom EDT messed up their plans to take early morning walks or bike rides in the summer, because going out to exercise in the evening wasn’t an option.
Like Doug, I’d much rather be on EST all year. It worked fine for me and many of us over here on the border with Ohio.
Sorry to go on and on.
As I said at a local time zone meeting Michigan is in the wrong time zone. Doug you are absolutely correct the Detroit area is geographically in the eastern zone. But the vast majority of Michigan,including the entire area directly North of Indiana is in the Central time zone. From what I’ve gathered,back in the 70’s the rest of the state got thrown under the bus because the bigwig money in the Detroit area wanted the entire state to be on eastern. The point being, this is absolutely no reason for Indiana ,a state that lies entirely in the central time zone, to be on the same time zone of a state that is unduly influenced by one metropolitan area. Just think of the havoc that would result if Michigan was the size of say,Montana.
As I’ve stated before GMT is the only standard of time. And should be the first priority in determining time zones not special interest group money.I would personally love to see some kind of Federal legislation disallowing a state that lies geographically entirely in one time zone from observing the time zone from another. That would squash the debate in Indiana once and for all being that the natural boundary runs through Ohio.Hell, if economics were the main deciding factor ,per the DOT, you could make an argument for Chicago or for that matter L.A. being on Eastern time.
And yes Doug your right. Taking a look at a time zone map, as it is now , it is absolutely ridiculous that Alabama ,Mississippi, and perhaps even more stupifyingly insane the Florida panhandle are all in the Central time zone year round. I will agree that it’s a pain in the ass that we live near the natural time zone border. The fact of the matter is that not one inch of Indiana lies in the eastern time zone. And I’m gonna scream that till the cows come home. Bait and Switch Mitch and his special interest group cronies turned a compromise that was reasonable for everyone for over thirty years(EST) into the chaos that we have now. Thanks One hitch, switch bitch, Mitch.
PS that was a great football game Rutgers/Louisville Rutgers shut em’ down big time in the second half. Anything that throws a monkey wrench in the BCS system and takes us one step closer to a desperately needed playoff system I am in favor of. If this ever happened some beaurecratic moron like Mitch would probably come along a few years later and change it back .
chuckcentral: Way to go! Under Daniels and his crew, Indiana is unduly under the influence of one metro area–Indianapolis! Heaven forbid if some Indianapolis businessperson ever misses a conference call with Halifax! Time zone and DST decisions should not be based primarily on what areas we do business with, as that could change dramatically over the years. Geographical location is the key and should be the primary reason behind any decision about our clocks.
What made sense for Indiana for years (and still does make sense) is EST all year for most of the state. Anyone who engages in business across time zones needs to learn to deal with whatever issues that causes, period. Knowing (or figuring out) what time zone people are in, or how many hours they are removed from GMT/UTC is just part of doing business. It really isn’t that hard. Sorry if that sounds harsh.
We are only about one quarter of a time zone wide (i.e., the sun takes about 15 minutes to pass overhead from our eastern to our western border). Indiana is the narrowest state split between two time zones. All of the other states in more than one zone are two to five times wider than Indiana (except Alaska, which is 15x wider). The next closest is Idaho, which is just over half a time zone wide.
One wonders what the Interstate Commerce Commission was thinking when they divided us in 1961.
The natural and original boundary between eastern and central time went down the middle of Ohio and the eastern borders of Michigan, Kentucky, and Tennessee.
By the state’s own figures (pdf page 7 of 44), Indiana’s per capita income was 106.4 percent of the national average in 1953 (when most or all of the state was on central time year-round, and had been for decades).
http://www.in.gov/iedc/pdfs/Strategic_Plan.pdf
By 2006 (after about 40 years of being on eastern time half the year and central time half the year), we had dropped to 91.4 percent. This is supposedly one of the steepest declines in the nation.
While the drop in our state’s prosperity was no doubt due to many factors, the least that can be said about the effect of the time zone is that splitting Indiana unnaturally between two time zones and having most of the state observe eastern time half the year were certainly not helpful to our prosperity and may well have helped contribute to its decline.
It is likely that putting the whole state back onto central time would not harm us economically and might actually help contribute to the governor’s stated goal of raising Indiana back up to the national average by 2020.
As far as whether it is stupid or not to be dark at or before 5:00 pm, this just goes with the territory when you decide to live near the 40th parallel from the equator, like we do in Indiana. When you only have 9 hours 21 minutes of daylight on December 21, as we do in Indianapolis, the natural sunrise and sunset are around 7:20 am and 4:40 pm. This has nothing to do with the time zone — it’s just simple geography. If you don’t like your days that short, the only solution is to move further south — closer to the equator. Don’t blame the time zone.
Full time eastern standard time amounted to about 45 minutes of “daylight saving time” year-round for central Indiana. Eastern daylight time is about 105 minutes of daylight shifted from morning to evening — which is why it used to be referred to as “double fast time”.
http://www2.indystar.com/library/factfiles/history/time/index.html
Bill Starr
Columbus, Indiana
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3770/
– e-mail link at the bottom of my page
Sat, 11 Nov 2006, 9:53 pm EST