The United States Department of Transportation, considering the joint petition of several southwestern counties to transfer from Central Time back to Eastern Time has sent a letter to the petitioning counties asking for more information. I don’t have time at the moment to provide much of an analysis, but I thought I’d post a link to the letter and let you all have at it.
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[…] 3. A November 14, 2006 letter from Judy Kaleta to Mark Shublak with comments and concerns regarding the original petition. There was some prior discussion on that subject here. […]
After reading the Kaleta letter dated 11-14-06 it would appear that the DOT was not too impressed with the Ice Miller effort. Looks to me like the work Tim Joyce did was far superior when matched up with the Indy law firm. Side note, the Indiana Time Zone docket is now up to 40,430 “hits”. Amazing for a docket opened in August 2005.
Doug,
I first got a look at this correspondence in a email last night from Tim Joyce.It shows that the DOT is reading the comments from the docket.For instance it makes reference to Rocky Byrds submission OST-22114-5454 which is his 11 page rebuttal to the Ice Miller petition calling them out on there lack of facts and mis-leading statements.This one concerns the Evansville Courier and Press which has been delivered in Loogootee(Martin county) for years.The petition stated it was not.
The question from the DOT about FIA(Futuba Indiana of America) is a direct result of Tim Jocyce and his rebuttal petition.The Ice Miller petition states this plant located in Knox county that provides internal door frames for Toyota plants also ships parts to a Toyota plant in Georgetown Indiana in the Eastern time zone.Tim Joyce pointed out this plant is in Georgetown Kentucky and is the only Toyota plant in the Eastern time zone.
Toyota has two plants on Central time San Antonio Texas and Princeton Indiana and three on Pacific time.
The DOT asks for Wal Mart store hours the Ice Miller petition made such a big deal out of.We have been submitting info all along saying the time zone these stores are in makes no difference since they are twenty four hour a day seven day a week stores except Washington which soon will be when the new SuperCenter opens soon there.They also made a big deal out of the Wal Mart distribution center in Seymour being on Eastern time however Tim Joyce was able to find out the Olney Illinois distribution center supplies the Washington and Vincennes stores.He was unable to get the information from the Jasper store.
I also liked how it made reference to Lawernce Memorial hospital which the petition stated would be on Eastern time if the petition was granted as you know this hospital is in Illinois!
Another good point this correspondence by the DOT makes is since Dubois county has historically been on a different time than the East Coast almost 7 months a year how would a change in time zones serve the convenience of commerece.
The DOT asks the same question about Crane since they also have been in line with Central time almost seven months a year how will being on Eastern time help convenience of commerce.I can`t wait for the answer to that one since this Base does business all over the world.The base commander has stayed out of this fight and it is only the Crane employee association that was involved in the petition.
The correspondence also makes note of the overwhelming circulation of the Evansville Courier compared to the Indy Star in the five counties.
It also makes note of the BEA(United States Bureau of Economic Analysis) which puts the petitioning counties in area 54 called the Evansville Indiana,Ky region except Knox county which is in a BEA of both Central and Eastern counties.
Also mentioned under recreation is Holiday World in Spencer county which supports Central time and had over a million visitors this year.We`ve made it a point to mention this to the DOT because the Ice Miller petition does not.
The imports exports from the area question was also a good one from the DOT.
I`ll be the first one to admit I was wrong about the DOT and they are taking this matter seriously and asking hard questions.Now we might lose in the end but at least we were heard on this matter.I know some thought all the multiple posting to the docket and hard work put in by people was foolish but as I said apparently we were heard.
This document is a good read and I look foward to the responses from Ice Miller to what are some very tuff questions if your trying to make a case for Eastern time for our region.
Phillip – Thanks for laying all that out and tracking down some of the cited docket petitions. Unfortunately paying work sometimes gets in the way of me dealing with my real interests.
I recall some people wondering why the DOT seemed to be taking so long to review the Joint Petition of the Southwest Counties, even questioning whether timing of a response reflected the DOT taking politics into consideration. The second paragraph of the letter may be of interest here:
“In September, we responded to the Joint Petition by asking that certain procedural concerns be addressed. [In essence the DOT had asked for assurance that the Joint Petition had actually been adopted by the Counties] . . . We said we would continue our review of the Joint Petition pending receipt of amended signature pages, but will take no action until amended signature pages are submitted. We received your response on November 14, 2006.”
The DOT letter is also dated November 14, 2006. Clearly the preliminary analysis had been completed and, from some point between September and November 14th, the DOT was simply waiting on a response from the Commissioners and their attorneys before releasing the letter.
It was the timing of the Commissioners’ response that assured that nothing would come from the DOT before the election. I, for one, find nothing that would suggest that the DOT is playing any game. The DOT is showing the formal deference and respect for actions that have the sanction of the highest elected official of this State (the Governor supplied a cover letter to the Joint Petition, which the DOT mentions).
Such deference, on form, is appropriate. The response, on matters of substance, was appropriate.
I find it curious that the November 14th DOT letter notes additional contact in September, then some type of correspondence back to the DOT in November. As of today, December 1st, there is noting posted at Docket OST-2005-22114. There has obviously been some discussion back and forth. I was under the impression that this material should be available to the public via the Docket.
Also, nary a word on the status of Pulaski County in Northern Indiana.
While those in Southern Indiana may take heart in the Kaleta letter, I would be requesting that all contact between the DOT and Ice Miller LLP/petitioning Southwest Indiana counties be made generally available.
Jim,
I also find that strange in that the correspondence between Pulaski county and comments from the tele- conference I belive last May was put on the docket and now everything seems to be behind the scenes in some ways.Rocky Byrd a fellow Loogootee resident and Central time supporter noticed this also.
I read a article at Pulaski county Express.com where the attorney from Ice Miller stated it would be Spring until something is decided and they were handling both petitions together.They had tried to get the DOT to consider the Pulaski county seperate to move it along faster.
The time was mentioned in the Washington Times Hearld this week at the Daviess county commisioners meeting where it was stated by county attorney Hayes it would be this Spring or possibly next Fall before a decision is made.
Rocky Byrd also had a post to the docket where he found a article I believe from the Pulaski county Journal in which a state Senator Weatherwax had met with DOT officials and came away frustrated with them.Anyway it`s in one of his posts.Not sure about all this I`d have to find the post again.
I exchanged emails with Rep Crooks this week who said he is writing a bill for a referendum on this issue.He also stated he is getting a lot of negative feedback about Central time now that the sunsets are around 4:30pm here.He believes as I do that Central time is best for the region but as a law maker I think he needs to do what the majority of his constituents want unlike Troy Woodruff.I`ve always stated I have no problem with people wanting Eastern time for the area as long as they are from this region.I stll have no regard for the Eastern time zone Crane employees telling my county or region what time zone to observe just to make it more convenient for themselves while at the same time burdening our citizens.
This may be a silly question but do any of the commitees mentioned above deal with DST??I noticed Rep Crooks is the chair of the commerce and utilities commitee or something like that.
If you look to past time zone matters the DOT wants to deal with the “highest” elected official in the petitioning county. In Indiana that’s county commissioners. This whole deal with Ice Miller and a combined multi-county effort is unusual. Yes I know there are outside forces behind it but if you study the DOT letter they are strictly following their guidelines.
As far as a time zone referendum I just do not see where it could go. Back in the early 1990’s Starke County had a county referendum which, I believe, favored a move to Central time. A vote is really meanless to the DOT. It’s the “commerce” issue that matters.
Jim,
I realize any referendum would be nonbinding and I also doubt it will go anywhere but I was wondering if the issue of DST fell under any particular commitee?When the law firm answers the questions put forth by the DOT and clears up some of their untruths in the petition, the answers to those questions will in my opinion and a few others bolster the case that the DOT made the right decision first time around in placing the region in the Central time zone.
It would be very easy for the DOT to deny these petitions with the information that has been provided in my opinion and use their previous findings last year to do so.Now will they?Who knows because I still think the Governor has some influence in this decision.
DST could probably be put in a number of different committees – commerce would be one of the leading contenders.
Doug,
Thank you!
I just noticed in The Pulaski County Journal a current update indicating that there be be some sort of new phase of fact finding starting now and going to Jan. 2,2007,and then DOT will decide whether or not to recommend Pulaski County be put back on ET,or stay CT.
Is this process just for Pulaski County? Is there a new phase for all the SW counties just starting? Is this a new process? People have been continuing to add comments to the DOT docket already for a long time,however I dont remember seeing any entries for Pulaski County.
The link : http://www.pulaskijournal.com/news/news.php#one
The DOT has opened a new docket (OST-2006-26442) for the new petitions. A Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM) dated 22 November 2006 is the first entry in the docket. The text of the NPRM seems to suggest that both Pulaski County and the Southwest 5 are to be handled in the new docket. The NPRM proposes to return Pulaski County to Eastern Time. It further states that the DOT is waiting on further information from the Southwest Counties before making an NPRM or denying their petition. The original petitions are still in the old docket. The new docket can be viewed at htt://dms.dot.gov, requesting a simple search and entering 26442 on the search line.
I should add that the petitions and letters from the state are duplicated in the new docket.
In follow up to my comment #12, I did a search on “Time Zone Boundary” for the year “2006” on the DOT docket server. The docket titled “Standard Time Zone Boundary in Pulaski County, IN” appears to be the only new docket on the subject. The title, contrary to the body of the proposed rule, would suggest a new docket for the Southwest Counties, should they supplement their petition to the Office’s satisfaction.
Paul,
Thanks for the information.
I don’t have a dog in this fight. It’s interesting reading Judy Koleta’s response to the petition for the SW Indiana counties seeking to return to the Eastern Time Zone. Sounds like the DOT is going to check their facts before making a decision. It sort of makes you wonder if the statistics put forth by Ice Miller were originated in DUBIOUS County. Sorry for the lame joke, I have to chuckle though, with the references to DUBIOUS county. West Virginia beat Rutgers 41-39 in triple OT. Sounds like U of L will be going to the Orange Bowl or Sugar Bowl.
unioncitynative,
Not really too lame of a joke when you consider the sloppy work produced by Ice Miller in regard to that joint petition.The question is was it sloppy work or was it intended to mislead as the petition does until the true facts or fill in the blanks if you will were presented to the DOT by a few people who bothered to read that document and do a little research and also call attention to a few just plain lies in this document.
Almost every question asked by the DOT in this latest correspondence was a direct result of this research and numerous posts to the docket calling attention to the lack of hard evidence and the glossing over of some issues by not providing enough information to a question and leaving many things out all together.
I think some of this was done by Ice Miller on purpose because a lot of those questions if answered truthfully will not help but instead hurt their case for a change to Eastern time for the Southwestern counties.
I was re-reading all the above very interesting developments and it occurred to me the reason so much of the rationale for either time zone is ‘fuzzy’ and best left ‘unclear’is that DOT bases decisons on ‘commerce’ concerns. We have often heard that and we wonder just what is ‘commerce’. I used to think it meant ‘shipping and receiving’ and by extention it includes the transportation that is involved in getting merchandise to where it is wanted,can make profit,and can be accessible to those who will buy it.But it also means the movement of people in general… including not only business trips, but family vacations, commuting to work,and by extension it also seems visits to the dentist, especially if you have to cross a TZ.( I remember the postings from Benton County complaining that they didnt want to go to Lafayette to see their dentist who would be in ETZ,and they were in CTZ)’Commerce’ is as inclusive or exclusive as serves the proponents of either TZ. So no wonder people who have an advocacy best present it by disproving the other side! And Im waiting to see whether the final debate in SW Indiana,and Pulaski county, will be why CT or ET isn’t valid because of lies and haf-truths from the opposition or whether ET or CT is valid because it’s best for the region.
Based on the deliberate, slow-paced nature of the current process,I really think USDOT is on top of this issue and they will ferret out all the self-serving irrelevancy and posturing and make a decision on what time is best for the region,as they see it, based on comments and facts presented from all sides.Not that the issue will ever be put to rest for many,but it would make it difficult to re-open the debate in a legislative way.This is USDOT’ s goal,imo.
Lou,
You make a good point.Many of us still believe that the reason the Joint Petition was so short of specifics on many of the points we`ve made as far as covenience of commerce, hence the follow up questions by the DOT is a direct result of rebuttal petitions in some cases.I`m glad the DOT is asking Ice Miller to clarify these questions and we look foward to reading the responses to those questions.
Obviously I`m biased for Central time but when those questions put forth by the DOT are answered by Ice Miller none of the answers will help their case for Eastern time which is why the specifics were not provided in the fiirst place in my opinion.As for the two or three out right untruths in this document I do not know if it was confusion,lack of knowledge of the region or sloppy research never the less they were lies and will be addressed hopefully in the responses.