The Perry County News is reporting that:
Perry County commissioners are asking the federal Department of Transportation to return the county to Eastern time if five other counties making the same request are successful.
Expressing frustration about the other counties’ reversal even before experiencing the effect of daylight-saving time, they approved unanimously a resolution to that effect in a regular meeting Monday.
I imagine the Governor was probably hoping that the time zone dust would’ve completely settled long before November 2008.
If I were reading this at the DOT it would sound like Perry County considers itself part of the “Switch Pack” of SW counties, but doesn’t support the petition to switch.
The commissioners say that Perry Countians overwhelmingly hated the effects of Central Daylight time in the winter. Already, other residents are complaining about the potential late sunsets if we make the switch back to Eastern. The majority liked the way it used to be.
Not surprising considering the ties between Dubois and Perry counties .I figured they would wait on the decision of the DOT this Summer when they issue a NPRM and comment period to switch the other five counties back to Eastern time this Fall before requesting the move though.The fight goes on!This is what happens when you have county vs county in trying to decide time zones.True this is the DOT rule but the DOT said they would have considered a request by the Governor and state legislature if either would have made a more general request for a statewide time zone study or suggestion.Since none was made by the spineless politicians we have the current mess!
T-
I assume residents of the county didn’t like the effects of Central Standard Time in the winter. Central Daylight Time, which you switched to on 11 March, is just another name for the way it used to be and wasn’t in effect in November, December, January and February.
Be thankful you haven’t tasted the late sunrises of Eastern Daylight Time in March. I know I am a notorious opponent of DST in the Eastern Time Zone part of the state, but even I have been taken aback by the virulence of the complaints I have been hearing, including folks who had been DST supporters. (Heard another one out of the blue this morning from an Indy resident complaining about trying to get her school age children up 2 hours before sunrise).
I found it odd in 2005 when a number of counties petitioned the DOT to move to “Central Daylight Time”. “Central Daylight Time” of course is not a time zone, it is the time that is observed during the period when Daylight Saving is in effect in the Central Time Zone. It seems clear now that many people in the areas petitioning (excluding Starke County, which holds all records for time zone petitions and knows about these things, having been in the CTZ prior to 1991) thought they could get the DOT to put them on year round CDT, aparently not realizing that wasn’t what they were getting. This may in part stem from the fact that prior to 1966 many parts of the state observed year round Central Daylight Time, and thought that they could simply revert to that. Last year the switch to DST occured at the beginning of Spring Break in many school districts, and to some extent mooted the complaints. I am getting the feeling though that for many Indiana residents it is just now “dawning” what the Governor’s DST antics really involved. And the Republicans’ excuses that they didn’t know that the starting date for DST was changing is as phoney as their stock response that all they have heard is how great DST is. The change in DST starting and ending dates had been proposed and was under active consideration in Congress at the time they were acting in Indianapolis on whether to observe it in the ETZ.
While as an ex-resident of Chicago and the “Region” I find it completely inexplicable why anyone would be bothered about “early” sunsets in December-it’s probably snowing or raining anyway, and wonder why everyone doesn’t crave some light in their life before they go to work (and incidence of Seasonal Affective Disorder increases at a given latitude for every degree further west in a time zone you move), I would accept resetting everything to the status quo ante and starting over, now that people are better versed on what bait and switch Mitch has gotten us into.
Paul,
I made the same argument here that why on earth does anyone care that much about it getting dark a little earlier in the Winter on Central time.It’s usually cold,raining, snowing or generally nasty outside anyway.
Light before work does nothing but help me put the key in the car door.
Light after work can be used for sledding on the hill with my son, walking the dogs, etc.
We were on Eastern Standard Time in Perry County before. The 4:40 sunsets were a completely new thing here, and pretty unpopular.
The evidence that waking up to some light, rather than in darkness, helps prevent SAD is pretty strong. See, for example,
http://www.ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/150/1/113
So you folks in Perry County were completely unaware of what life was like in Spencer County, or across the river in Kentucky?
Also, sunset occurring “a little earlier” would be fine. After all, that’s how it naturally occurs. But once we tinker with the clocks, it gets light a little later, and dark much, much earlier in winter. Sunrise times vary by less than two hours throughout the year, while sunset comes almost four hours earlier in the winter.
We didn’t live across the river in Kentucky. It’s also a dry county over there. Kentucky schools aren’t as good, either. We chose to live on this side of the river for a variety of reasons. I rarely look to guidance from Kentucky on how to live my life. We were aware of their clock status–that didn’t create an urge in us to change our clocks with the changing seasons.
Let’s all keep changing the clocks (altering time itself) to have the sun go down at 4:40 just so the minority of the population who has SAD doesn’t have too tough a time of it. Maybe we could also jumble up the letters on all our signs in a show of solidarity with dyslexics while we’re at it.
At the heart of it, the argument is what do we do about the six hours less daylight in winter? If the clocks were left alone, the sun would rise three hours late, and set three hours early compared to summer. We’ve decided (or had decided for us) that sunrises two hours later, and sunsets four hours earlier, is definitely the preferred way to go. I guess I need more evidence than the effects on SAD (which affects a minority of the population) to convince me that the old way (which allowed me some daylight after work) was so bad.
T-
SAD prevalence may run to 10 to 20% of the population in northern climes, but is lower in the south for an overall rate of about 3 to 5%. We are talking about diagnosed cases of clinical depression here, not just Winter blues. The Mood Disorders Society of Canada further estimates that 20% of SAD patients develop symptoms of bi-polar disorder, which is an extremely serious.
I’m not sure I follow all your arguments, but, supposing only about 3 to 5% of the population would contract lung diseases from eliminating air pollution equipment on automobiles, would you agree we should do so in order to increase fuel economy on our cars?
While Dubois County is the single biggest county of destination for workers leaving Perry County, a majority of those leaving the county go to work in traditionally Central Time Zone areas rather than to Dubois County. You seem rather indifferent to the fact that some 14.5% of Perry County’s workforce works in Central Time parts of Kentucky, or in long time Central Time parts of Indiana (primarily Spencer, Warrick and Vanderburgh counties).
Diabetes prevalence is much higher than SAD prevalence. I haven’t heard any proposals to eliminate sugar from the food supply.
20% of 10% is what? 2%. I would argue that bipolar rate is not worth having 100% of people change their clocks.
Still trying to understand… OK, rather than saying I’m indifferent to the fact that 14.5% of the workforce has to cross a timezone line, could we say I’m sensitive to the fact that 85.5% of the workforce doesn’t–but has to change to early sunsets nonetheless?
Central time supporters of SW Indiana have crunched the numbers and submitted them to the DOT and the least amount of inconvenience for commuters is if the five repetitioning counties along with Perry remain in the Central time zone.The only exception are the Crane workers commuting to my county Martin.If you take the overall numbers commuting out of the six counties to the Central time zone including Illinois and Kentucky,and those from the Central time zone commuting into the six counties and compare those numbers to people commuting into the six counties from the Eastern time zone and those commuting out of the six counties to the Eastern time zone the least inconvenience is had by leaving the six counties in the Central time zone.
T,
Being from close to your part of the state in SW Indiana it’s been pretty hard to find snow the past two years to do any sledding hasn’t it?I have measured apprx.3 inches of snow total this season and just a little over that last season.We haven’t had a decent snow in Loogootee since the big Christmas week snow storm on Dec.22 2004.That’s the one thing I hate about SW Indiana since I am a snow lover.
T,
You wrote:
That’s because there is way too much money to be made in high fructose corn syrup.
Why isn’t the ETZ in MI,KY and OH as compelling an argument for ET in IN as CT in Il and KY is for CT in SW Indiana? There’s one argument, from CT people, that we should just draw the TZ boundary at the IN borders,putting all of IN on CT, and let the neighboring states do what they want, and another that CT in neigboring states counts for CT adoption in SW IN.But maybe these are two different groups of CT people. Convoluted reasoning like the above examples is why the emphasis needs to be on where the TZ boundary is drawn rather than which TZ is better.My theory is that we have come full cycle with all 6 original ETZ counties in SW IN having re-petitioned(Perry County commissioners are still figuring out procedures for re-petitioning, but they are all agreed)thereby re-establishing the TZ border of 1962-2005.There must be be some magic in that line!
Lou– I think those counties just want it “the old way”, and can’t get it. The old way seemed to satisfy more people, or more likely it dissatisfied less people. I don’t recall any clamoring to change the clocks until right before it happened. But it’s been nothing but anger and resentment since then, from those who want central, or those who want eastern. Before, we kinda had both.
For me, I don’t care so much anymore whether I have to mentally add or subtract an hour as I go east or west (or north or south in Perry County’s unique situation). I just don’t want the wild fluctuations in the timing of the daylight. I would prefer not to have extremely late or early sunsets. Geographically, Perry Co. should be in Central. If DST were year-round, I’d be quite satisfied. I end up advocating Eastern because I’d rather have extremely late sunsets in the summer than extremely early sunsets in the winter. It’s a personal value judgment everyone has to make, since the process has been fairly arbitrary up to now anyway.
T,
Well said!With most people it’s about first where the time zone line is located and which zone will inconvenience them least.Second it’s the wild fluctuations in the sunset and sunrise times you mention.
T.
One thing I don’t see any solution for is sunrise/sunset times. DOT won’t deal with it either.That’s why I mostly ignore the issue,and when I’m in Indiana I just adjust for the short time I’m there.Number one issue would be not to have to deal with a TZ line in normal daily activities.With that avoided anything else is tolerable.If I lived in Indiana full time that would absolutely remain my position .
T: Sugar consumption of itself does not cause diabetes.
And lack of morning sunlight does not cause SAD. In both examples, it is a characteristic of the person suffering the disorder that is then exacerbated by an environmental factor. For those with a predisposition toward depression or SAD, the decreased light in winter exacerbates that. But a one hour shift in time of sunrise does not cause SAD. For someone with a predisposition for glucose intolerance, years of overeating a high carbohydrate diet (and the resulting ever-increasing insulin levels in the body) lead to insulin insensitivity and full-blown diabetes. The existence of sugar alone does not cause it. In neither case should the environmental element (the existence of sugar, or a later sunrise) be considered some kind of hazard that need be eliminated due to its overwhelming danger to society. I think the analogy is a decent one. Not perfect, but decent.
I wasn’t talking about SAD, only diabetes.
:)
I agree that EST year round was definitely the best because it was like a “compromise” which I’ve often heard suggested. We want it back the old way so that instead of being on “real time,” or one hour ahead, it was always about 30 minutes ahead year round. Many people have suggested such a compromise of setting clocks ahead 30 minutes from standard time and leaving them year round, to minimize the difference between winter and summer on both ends of the day. This is what year-round EST in Indiana essentially did. Why can’t we have it back?! The decision of having to be 90 minutes ahead in summer vs. 30 minutes behind in winter, is a tough one, either way. I don’t want to have to make it. Thank you. Everyone was happier and much better off when it was EST year-round, which was essentially 30 minutes ahead of standard time year round. And best of all, it was one time! No changing back and forth. This is another reason for why some people have suggested this 30-minute “compromise” year round, which was pretty much what Indiana was doing before the switch to DST!! Also, a 2008 study showed that EDT actually costs more in energy consumed in Indiana, and the reason Mitch did it in the first place was to save energy, and it failed to do so. This is more evidence for why we should go back to EST year round, which is the way it was before he changed it.