Kevin Koelling, writing for the Perry County News, has an article entitled Commissioners Still Claim Majority Wants Eastern Time. The article has a lot of detail on the meeting which seemed to be dominated by a crowd of Central Time proponents urging the Perry County Commissioners not to submit a petition to the United States Dept. of Transportation seeking a change to the Eastern Time Zone. The County Commissioners had apparently already made up their mind, however.
Hopefully the commissioners have a way of giving Gov. Daniels an earful for putting them in this position in the first place. Choosing Eastern Time, the commissioners say they are chasing the dream of putting all of Indiana in one time zone. I have no opinion on which time zone is best for Perry County. But the burden shouldn’t be on county commissioners to get Indiana into one time zone. It’s a state issue and the state should have taken it up at the same time as they took up the issue of Daylight Saving Time. Instead, you have what appear to be truly bitter hearings at the local level.
Par for the course in these commissioners meetings.Over 1000 name petition for Central and still growing.174 businesses for Central and the school system prefers to remain on Central time yet the commisioners say the majority want Eastern.Now when Eastern time proponents submit the same kind of information it is called a GROUNDSWELL OF SUPPORT FOR EASTERN TIME when Central time supporters submit such evidence it is called unimportant!
Majority opinion is not a deciding factor either way for the DOT.We still await the third attempt or Ice Miller LLP response whatever you wish to call it to be placed on the docket so we can find the errors and misleading statements and submit the rebuttal to the DOT as we did the previous two times which showed the incorrect facts and incorrect information that the DOT referenced in two requests for clarification to Ice Miller LLP.
The response to the docket overwhelmingly is for Central time from the residents of Perry county.They are pissed! Given the location of Perry county to the original Central time counties and the part of Kentucky which observes Central time this is why they are upset.I have not studied the Perry county commuter numbers but I imagine they favor Central time.As stated by the DOT in the April 2nd correspondence to Ice Miller LLP the commuter numbers for our 5 counties overwhelmingly favor Central time and asked Ice Miller LLP to explain themselves on this matter.
Mr.Byrd had previously submitted a break down in the commuter numbers but has done so again on the docket in a 16 page response.
The resolution that will be sent to the DOT by the Perry county commissioners will state they wish to be moved to Eastern only if the other 5 counties request for Eastern is granted.They will as I understand it have to file a seperate petition if that happens and given that the changeover for any time zone decision will be in the first week in November I believe it will be hard for Perry county to change time zones this year in my opinion but anything is possible in this process.I’ve seen it all!
My eyes bugged out at one item in the Perry County News story in particular:
“In response to a question from the audience, Fortwendel [one of the commissioners] and Commissioner Don Sherry said their request to the DOT [i.e. the petition] will be meaningless.”
Are these guys serious or did I read that incorrectly? If I lived in Perry County and supported Central Time I’d make sure that the DOT got a copy of the story with that little tidbit highlighted.
This behavior has been pretty standard for the Perry County commissioners. I support Eastern for personal, selfish lifestyle reasons, but having the commissioners on my side thrills me not a bit.
My personal history with the commissioners has involved a couple of instances. In one case we tried to get a physician to be appointed as a voting member of the local hospital board of directors. We were told how inappropriate such a move would be, due to a conflict of interest. Our ability to present evidence that almost all surrounding hospitals have such arrangements did not matter a bit. In a second instance, I had requested the hospital decide whether they would renew my lease for office space, so that I would know if I needed to build office space for my practice. A couple of weeks later, the infamous Perry County “Certificate of Need” ordinance governing new medical buildings was inacted on its first reading by the commissioners, having possibly been written in a series of serial meetings with the hospital CEO and board members. A newspaper story informed the public. That is how I learned that my ability to practice in the county might be inconvenienced, if not in jeopardy.
So this is par for the course for this crew. This is how they govern: Pass law. Then inform public, unleashing completely predictable crapstorm. Express wonderment that there’s a problem. Then hold fast to decision no matter what.
Ultimately, the safest thing for Perry Countians to do is attend every damn commissioner’s meeting. Otherwise get used to finding out in the paper that they gave someone a concession at your expense, after consulting everyone but you.
The Perry County Certificate of Need ordinances were illegal by the way. (At least in my ever so humble opinion.) And they should have known that they were illegal due to the fact that similar ordinances had already been struck down by the federal court in southern Indiana. (See here and here for the details.)
T,
I am sure Mr.Byrd will reference the Perry county article in a submission to the DOT and provide a web address.In Martin county we only have had one chance at defeating one of these flip flopping commissioners in the May 2006 primary and we were successful.He also stated the majority of folks wanted Eastern time and ran on the issue.
Would it make it any easier if we supplied everyone with Mickey Mouse watches with the big hands? Maybe then hoosiers would finally know what time it was, or is, or should be, or is supposed to be, or…
damn, look at the time, I gotta go!
The Perry county commenters are posting to the docket pro central at about the same rate Pulaski was coming in for Eastern in their docket. About 90%. We have one that thinks Eastern will lead to returning to year round EST (UST-5). Dream on, why not go with UST -5 for 8 months until that distant future when you can have year round again.
Looking at the commissioners responses, the arrogance is thick enough to cut with a chain saw. It appears they take the attitude “the public be damned”. Since the first petition is not enough to get through to them, a second petition should be circulated as well. A RECALL PETITION!
I don’t care whether Perry County is Central or Eastern, either. One thing I do mind is the constant assertion on the part of Central proponents that we need “one state, one time” and that this is a state issue. NONSENSE! It is a state issue only if you want the state government to use its leverage to support Central Time when that is not naturally happening through the existing process. If it were clear that there were some organic, seismic popular uprising for Central Time statewide, maybe that could be justified. However, a few pockets of Central popularity do not justify throwing the whole state into turmoil over this right now again.
Doug, you seem to be averse to contentious policy-making decisions at the local level. Why? The people of Perry County can deal with their commissioners as they see fit, but let them petition the DOT for their county. If Perry Countians have elected commissioners who cannot figure out what to do on this, they wouldn’t be alone. There are no fewer than six flip-flop counties since this whole process began and more if you count the revoked petitions early on in 2005. However, let the people in those counties deal with the issue without involving others.
Despite all the blogging on this issue (which I thoroughly enjoy), the reality is that the switch to EDT has been pretty benign as I see it. In most parts of the state, it’s no longer an issue. I don’t see it in letters to the editor, nor on other blogs.
The law and precedent just don’t support the contention that this is a state issue. As the DOT’s responses to time zone request changes have gone, it is a county-by-county issue mitigated by the federal government. The DOT expressly rejected the idea of a statewide review when the General Assembly and Governor Daniels asked for it in 2005.
Those pissed at Daniels over this seem to forget that he did petition the federal government for the craved statewide hearings and was denied. Some criticize him for not expressing a preference in that request. However, the law did not grant him that authority. The reason? There simply is no statewide consensus on the issue. Why? A statewide solution that forcefeeds one time is doomed to fail. No one need feel “burdened” to get Indiana onto one time because it doesn’t belong on one time!
Until and unless the General Assembly can muster up the support necessary to send up a request for the DOT to look at statewide Central, let’s quit pretending that there is some massive popular tsunami for Central statewide that Daniels, et. al, are suppressing. Just ask David Crooks why he WITHDREW his statewide Central referendum last session. I doubt it had anything to do with appeasing Gov. Daniels.
What lies in the state government’s hands is DST. Forget the Eastern/Central debate statewide. Anyone wanting to make headway toward the EST past should probably be lobbying for the revoking of DST and not the moving of time zone borders from one state line to another.
First off DST is here to stay and is not going anywhere.I agree time zone is not important to most of the state but when you get to the NW or SW corner it’s huge.It destroys peoples family time, creates scheduling conflicts in numerous ways you name it!Try telling someone who gets off work at 5:00pm then has to commute a hour home only to find it already being 7:00pm this issue is no big deal.They miss their kids school events and athletics and their schedules are screwed up.
Steve,
Are you sure the Governor never stated a time zone preference???Seems like when he was running he stated Central time made the most sense for Indiana that is until he was elected!!The Evansville Courier printed his quotes on the subject with him saying this.
The law doesn’t grant Daniels the authority to state a time zone preference?Then how come he stated a preference that the remaining counties in SW Indiana Dubois,Martin and Daviess be granted Central time in the first go around which they were.How come he asked that the DOT leave St Joseph county on Eastern time after the DOT issued a NPRM to move the county to Central and now has told or stated the DOT should move our five SW counties back to Eastern time.Seems to me he’s stating a time zone preference.
Daniels just tried to divorce his self from the situation and hang it on the know nothing commissioners who are clueless.By the time we get to vote these jokers out the time zone may be switched back to Eastern and it will be too late.We’ve only had one chance to vote one out in our county and he ran on Eastern time and got beat!!!!Crooks ran on Central time then after elected pulled a switch to Eastern.This is what makes people mad.
I don’t give a crap what time zone most of Northern and Central Indiana is on!Our region belongs in the Central time zone .
Steve- what do you mean Indiana doesn’t belong in one time zone? All of Indiana was in the Central Time Zone until 1961. It is the only state in which the federal government has moved a time zone boundary across it’s border and divided a unified state. It did so at the urging of the Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce who was working on behalf of the Indianapolis TV stations that wanted to be on the same time as their network feeds from New York City.
If you like the time arrangement in Indiana you should thank the Indiana Chamber of Commerce. It is responsible for the mess. DOT by placing the problem at the county commissioner level has given the ICC the advantage because it’s members are the most influential people in the county. Most of the commissioners are part time and their primary livelihood might be affected by their votes.
Indianapolis has the latest sunrises of any city its size in the country and we the people have never had a choice in the matter. It was imposed on us by federal fiat.
The question I have is would have the rape of a 14 year old girl been prevented if we had not changed time. I say yes !!!! Why hasn’t this family gone ballistic with this issue?
Ever tried to get kids to bed at a decent hour since the time change? I have and it is not working. I will vote agains any person who voted for this time change…..altough I am a FRBD= Former republican before Daniels. I will never vote for a republican again after Mitch Daniels.
I would point out that stating that Indiana observed CT until 1961 could be misleading,as if CT today would be the same now as then.I grew up in the period of ‘time chaos’which ended in 1966 with the Time Act requiring obligatory CDT.Indiana was granted a 30+ year reprieve,which has now ended. DST was used as a sort of local moveable time zone that either equalized times with a neighboring state or area, or gave an area a 1-hour time difference. With this local option gone, this is why the debate is so heated,but we sometimes argue as if we’ve forgotten that.Time zone must include DST now,and people still would prefer the local option,but it is gone. Some people still today sometimes insist that Ohio was observing CT until recent times because they remember Cincinnati having the same time as Chicago in summer. That was never the case: Cincinnati didnt observe DST until late 50s or 60s,but has observed ET since 1927.So memory can deceive when we try to go back and reconstruct a lost reality from it.
From Wisconsin to parts of Ohio in the 1950s we traveled in summer through CST to EDT,a 2 hour difference,but we had to pick the spot,and how many time changes depended on the chosen route. (so during the trip it was necessary to keep setting clocks forward and backwards if we wanted to have the exact local time)But car travel was relatively slow then ,with very limited expressway travel.Also all railroad schedules were written in Standard Time.Long distance train travel was still very widespread in the 50s.Ive always assumed that the building of the Federal Interstate system made time uniformity a must.By 1966 it was well along.
Referring to the original legislation passed in 2005 that ended EST and required Daniels to request hearings–he had no mandate to request a time zone for the state with the DOT. That he subsequently weighed in on individual requests by given counties is a totally different scenario than making a statewide request. Furthermore, whatever happened during the campaign was NOT reflected in the legislation governing Daniels’ ability to request a TZ from the DOT.
I’ll leave others to argue his intervention in individual situations such as St. Joseph Co. and the SW counties. Under the scenario as it was, nothing was in place stopping a natural expansion of Central Time based on popular demand through county commissioners. If the county commissioners were incompetent, that is unfortunate, but not the fault of the governor nor of the DOT.
Since I do not live in SW Indiana, I have no opinion on the time zone there. However, I do not see any reason that the SW counties’ request to move to Eastern Time should be granted. The regional ties among these counties and to Evansville seems to have been more than amply demonstrated on the DOT docket. Since I am a “one state, one time” skeptic, my personal view is that the petition should be denied based on the evidence.
I have a 4 yr. old and a 3 yr. old. As the father of two small children, I’m frankly tired of their bedtime being invoked as the reason to move time zones. The sun sets later than average bedtime during the summer only. So, they’ll enjoy summer a bit later. While Central Time may allow a more Puritanical (Hoosier?) “early to bed, early to rise” lifestyle, I don’t feel frustrated by the matter. Soon enough, the sun will be setting before bedtime. Luckily, thanks to the Eastern Time Zone, it will never set 2 – 3 hours before dinnertime as it would under CST in Winter. (Do CT advocates ever consider that a relatively average person whose day begins at say, 6 a.m., and ends at 10 – 11 p.m. must spend 5.5 – 6 hours of the evening in total darkness? Even under EDT/EST, no one living such a schedule spends more than 1.5 – 2 hours of the morning in darkness.)
Further, I grew up in SE Indiana. For my entire youth, I lived with an effective time zone border on a daily basis during DST. My high school observed EST, while everyone else in my home county (Dearborn) observed EDT. I faced the scenario every day of leaving school at 3:00 p.m. EST for the hour bus ride to arrive home at 5:00 p.m. EDT. This was an inconvenience to say the least. Yet, we learned to live with it and no one proposed moving the time zone line in order to convenience us. We understood that our choice to observe DST due to our extremely strong ties with Cincinnati would cause inconvenience in dealing with the rest of the state, but that was our problem, and not the rest of the state’s.
Jim B–
What is “a mess” about the current situation? It seems pretty straightforward to me. What do you say to all the people living near Cincinnati and Louisville who have been inconvenienced by the time zone border for years? Why shouldn’t their inconvenience be considered as much as anyone else’s?
One last point–the vast majority of Indiana has not observed Central Standard Time for at least 40 years. I think the quickest way to end the time zone debate would be to force the entire state to observe CST next winter. Then, we can see just which “poison” the state prefers–EDT or CST. My guess is that opposition to CST in the majority of the state would dwarf the regional opposition to the time zone line as it currently stands. Plus, unless Indy changes, no significant pockets of the state are likely to move, either.
Again, at the end of the day, a return to EST is always in the purview of the state government with no federal intervention, if the will for it exists. As a pragmatic matter, if I wanted to change something, I’d move in that direction.