Gallup has a depressing poll out.
The majority of Republicans in the United States do not believe the theory of evolution is true and do not believe that humans evolved over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. . . . Those [Americans] who attend church frequently are much less likely to believe in evolution than are those who seldom or never attend. That Republicans tend to be frequent churchgoers helps explain their doubts about evolution.
And here is the howler:
About a quarter of Americans say they believe both in evolution’s explanation that humans evolved over millions of years and in the creationist explanation that humans were created as is about 10,000 years ago. . . . It might seem contradictory to believe that humans were created in their present form at one time within the past 10,000 years and at the same time believe that humans developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life. But, based on an analysis of the two side-by-side questions asked this month about evolution and creationism, it appears that a substantial number of Americans hold these conflicting views.
It might seem contradictory? The results showed 24% believe both evolution of humans over millions of years is true AND creation of humans within the past 10,000 years. 41% believe creationism is true and evolution is false. 28% believe that evolution is true but that creationism is false. And 3% believe that bothare false or have no opinion.
God, we’re stupid.
The article gives this explanation for the conflicting answers:
Without further research, it’s not possible to determine the exact thinking process of those who agreed that both the theory of evolution and creationism are true. It may be, however, that some respondents were seeking a way to express their views that evolution may have been initiated by or guided by God, and told the interviewer that they agreed with both evolution and creationism in an effort to express this more complex attitude.
That would seem to me the most “rational” explanation…the evolution/creation debate doesn’t have definite yes/no answers for a lot of people. I actually found the even goofier part of the article to be where people who were definitely anti-evolution/pro-creationism gave “I believe in Jesus Christ” as the most common answer for why they think that way. Um, Jesus had a lot of things to say, but I don’t remember him endorsing a literal reading of Genesis as being one of them…maybe I’m forgetting something…
Thanks for reading the poll report more closely.
And, for the record, I’m not saying that evolutionary theory is flawless. However, it explains the available data very well. If you find data that contradict the theory, you modify the theory and attempt to find one that explains the data better. Rinse. Repeat. Theories evolve too.
Personally, I think this is a better way to determine the truth about our existence — at least as to the facts of the material universe — than relying on the Old Testament.
But, whichever way you go, it seems like you cannot logically believe that humans evolved over millions of years and were created not more than 10,000 years ago. If you believe that evolution was guided by God, you just go ahead and answer that you believe in evolution because you don’t believe that God created humans in their present form within the past 10,000 years. I guess maybe I’m just in deposition mode – trying to hammer into clients, “Just Answer the (&%*@) Question”.
Evolution is science and creationsm is faith.Confuse the two deliberately and the religious conservatives can do away with Constitutional secular law and substitute the Bible as the basis for our laws.Guess who will then step in and tell us what the Bible means? That’s the plan.Then the poor can be legally told to ‘turn the other cheek’ and not expect ‘government hand-outs’,and that’s just the beginning of God’s kingdom on Earth..
Looking at the details of the polls leaves me wondering what some of these people think they are answering. Consider that Gallup asked in alternation to those polled, which of the following is true:
A. Evolution, that is, the idea that human beings developed over millions of years from less advanced forms of life
B. Creationism, that is, the idea that God created human beings pretty much in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years
53% in aggregate said A was true and 66% in aggregate said B was true. I’d have thought that the two answers were pretty mutually exclusive, but the results suggest a fair number of Americans think both can be true simultaneously.
The statement that “That Republicans tend to be frequent churchgoers helps explain their doubts about evolution.” may be confusing cause and effect. Chasing the “evangelical” vote has been a deliberate strategy of the Republicans for many years so I’d guess the sentence should read “Frequent churchgoers tend to be evangelicals who have doubts about evolution and evangelicals have trended Republican.” In other words, I don’t think being Republican tended to make people churchgoers, I suspect rather that being an evangelical (and ergo somewhat impressionable?) simply made one a target for Republicans.
Paul made some interesting points and Id like to add that it was Southern politics and the conversion of the ‘blue dog Dems’ to Republicans that allowed the strong southern evangelical movement to become so prominent in Republican Politics. The official issue was ‘states rights’which was a whitewashed way of saying that integration was forced on the South by the Feds,and they were going to secede again.When Republicans gained control of the country they were basically a Southern Evangelical movement gone national.. Religion and Politics have always been melded in the South.The KKK and the Civil rights marchers both looked for support in Scripture for their actions.
Ya think maybe you guys are overthinking this one? When “polled” about religion, my guess is almost everyone will cop to believing in God somewhat, even when they can’t square it with evolution. I’d be curious as to the methodology used when polled.
If you think about it, We’ve probably all known a lot of people who were “atheists” but if they had a car wreck, a gun pointed at them or some other life threatening situation, they start praying & believing pretty damn quickly.
I don’t know, tim. That’s a line that a lot of Christians use, but it’s not really something that can be proved. That idea is expressed alot, though.
Speaking from my own person experience, I was present at my son’s delivery by emergency c-section, which went bad to the point that I had the experience of participating in his resuscitation for an hour until the neonatal team from the more specialized hospital arrived–while my wife watched the procedings from a few feet away. He required a ventilator for a week, and intensive care for a month but with eventually a good outcome and seems to be doing well (that is, we think everything’s completely normal, but whenever a 20 month old doesn’t do everything exactly on time, it makes you wonder a bit). My wife stayed with him and I worked by day and made the hourlong drive each way in the evenings, so we were apart quite a bit. I knew my wife was “on the fence” spiritually, and religion or god never came up during this very trying time. It was months later that she asked if I had prayed and I had to report that I never did. She not only said that she had not prayed, but in fact during that period had ceased to entertain the slim possibility of an existence of a god (she previously wasn’t sure either way, but somehow this episode had brought clarity for her). We are loving and devoted parents, have been preparing ourselves and home for parenthood for years, did everything right to deliver a healthy child, etc.. But when it didn’t work out as planned, we held each other up and did all the holding and reassuring of our son that his condition would allow. But never once did it occur to us to ask for supernatural intervention during this crisis. It just didn’t cross my mind, pro or con.
Just going from my own experience, I suspect there are more than a few people who don’t really believe in God but are afraid or feel guilty about articulating their lack of belief to others or even to themselves.
As a young kid, I recall being scared that I didn’t believe in Jesus. Because, you see, I’d been told that if I didn’t believe in Jesus, I’d go to hell. Then it occurred to me, “hey, if you’re scared, that means you believe.”
When I got older, I either lost the fear or figured that fear was a shitty reason to believe in anything. I forget which — both are true for me now. Then I recall the first time I spoke aloud the obvious corollary – that this meant I wasn’t a Christian – to someone (my cousin, as it happens). It felt like I was doing something bad by saying it, even though I was merely telling the truth.
So, anyway, I can’t believe I’m the only one who has had to deal with negative emotions associated with realizing I don’t believe in the divinity of Jesus Christ.
Doug, I wonder what church background you were raised in? I thought maybe I read sometime Presbyterian? I’m kinda surprised they would have pressed the hell thing very much. Most mainline protestants, & even Catholics I think, don’t dwell on that anymore & haven’t for a while. It’s usually presented more as lack of faith = absence of heaven, or separation from God, not fire & brimstone & eternal torture & all that good stuff. Of course I can see how you still would not find that much better than purely fear-based belief. But I certainly wouldn’t feel comfortable either in a church that preached consistently about hell. The Lutheran, Methodist, & Presbyterian churches I’ve gone to in my lifetime haven’t.
It was Presbyterian and, you’re right, they didn’t dwell on the hell issue. But, somehow it made an impression. Come to think of it, seems like I remember being particularly nervous on the faith/hell/belief issue one summer when I was out in Colorado visiting my Dad and my (ex)step-mother. My sister and I, for some reason, went to a summer Bible study class of some sort with a step-brother and a couple of step-sisters. I have no idea what denomination they may have been. But, it could be that those folks were pressing hell and damnation more than your toned-down Midwestern Presbyterian minister would have.
Glenn: I was thinking the same thing about Doug. (Sorry, Doug :)) I was a member of a a PC USA church for about 15 years of my adult life. I think that the PC USA is what most people think of when they say “Presbyterian.” There are other Presbyterian denominations, however.
The PC USA would probably not go for the fire and brimstone–at least not nowdays–but the PC in America is more conservative. There is also the Reformed Presbyterian Church–which does not use musical instruments. There may be other Presbyterian denominations that I am not aware of.
Regardless of what denomination you may be in, the discussions of religion in the public square typically include at some point that 1)We are a Christian nation, 2) If you believe, you go to heaven, 3) If you don’t believe, you don’t. In the last few years, number 3 has been more slanted toward going to hell. This is just common knowledge, passed about between people, discussed amongst children, displayed on the message boards outside churches, on billboards, etc. Many denominations may have a friendlier, less threatening message than hell. But the ones that stress hell are louder, get more airtime, and populate a lot of the positions of power in the federal government.
I can relate to Doug’s unease announcing his atheism. Just a couple of days ago, one of my staff blurted out “Are you an ATHEIST?!?” It was a mix of disbelief that such a thing could even exist despite her knowledge (derived from her very close personal relationship with her Savior Jesus Christ) of what an awesome God God is, and of course horror. She just as easily could have asked if I like to self-mutilate for pleasure, it seemed. I gave one of those “I’m not blessed with having faith that I know exactly how it all happened, or that God is responsible for it all.” It was a semi-truthful copout, because frankly I like being able to work, and need the money to pay for shelter, food, etc. for my family. And “oh, yeah, he’s the ‘atheist doctor'”, isn’t the best sales pitch I could think of. I wouldn’t want to think that lack of a belief in a certain mythology would make people doubt my technical skills or medical knowledge (firmly rooted in the scientific method as it is). But I’m not quite prepared to test it out. It’s not like history lacks examples of people suffering the consequences of being right.
Surely you’re mistaken. I thought history was just one episode after another of various peoples tolerating dissent, peacefully debating their differences, and harmoniously synthesizing a new viewpoint from the best aspects of the thesis and antithesis.