Sen. Charbonneau has introduced SB 34 which would require the Governor to petition the USDOT to put all of Indiana in the Central Time Zone. This will likely go exactly nowhere this session. This sort of language should have been in the original Daylight Saving Time bill (or all-Eastern language or a specification of the desired time zone division) so that local governments wouldn’t have spent the last 2.5 years trying to clean up the mess.
Since this won’t go anywhere, I’d like to see it turn into a study committee charged with developing a petition to put Indiana all in Central Time. Economically, I think it makes sense. As Horace Greeley said all those years ago, “head west young man.” Well, the U.S. has headed west and the center of population density is shifting ever westward. Being in the central time zone would also mean that Hoosiers share more business hours in common with more people in the U.S.
The General Assembly should develop the petition with input from the Governor. Just turning it over to the Governor and telling him to submit a petition is a recipe for futility if the Governor decides to half-ass the job.
please put an end to this time obsession of yours. it’s over. let’s give our Hoosiers time to figure out if they can adjust their clocks twice a year, and see if the farm animals can adjust. it’s over
Get out! Chicago doesn’t want us. Quit trying to join up on the Central Time Zone bandwagon.
Personally, I’d prefer to be on the same time as Stockholm. If we were just a few more degrees to the north, the whole “when it gets dark/light” argument would just fly out the window.
This time of the year is the most evident as to why we should’nt be on Central Time…wouldn’t it suck to have a sunset an hour earlier. That proposition sounds at best depressing……..
The issue has life if it costs the Governor a net of one out of every fifty votes in November’s election and controls the outcome in three or four state legislative districts, however much residents of counties well removed from the time line are satisfied with the current line. Former House Speaker Bosma attributed the Republican’s loss of control of the house of representatives in 2006 more to the DST/time zone controversy than to Major Moves.
It isn’t that most people care about the issue, I’d be surprised if 20% of the people in the Eastern Time Zone (and 5% in the Central Time Zone) get exercised over this issue. The problem for Republicans is that most of the minority who care about the issue care about it very strongly, and they don’t like the outcome. Folks living along whatever is the latest location for the time line, and who don’t like that fact, will (to some extent rightly) blame that fact on the governor and will remember that it was the Republicans who opened up this can of worms by repealing our exemption from daylight saving.
Amen to your sentiments, Doug.
The DOT has reiterated multiple times that the only reason that they continue to insist on a county-by-county process is that they feel that the Indiana state legislators essentially tied their hands from putting the entire state back in a single time zone again. E.g.,
“[W]ith regard to comments requesting that DOT move the entire state to the same time zone, DOT does not have a statewide proposal before it nor has the Indiana legislature endorsed such an approach. It is, therefore, beyond the scope of this proceeding to consider such a significant change to the state’s time zone boundaries.”
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf103/487891_web.pdf
– Federal Register / Vol. 72, No. 185 / Tues, 25 Sep 2007 / Rules and Regulations / 54367
Joe, I think if you read closely you’ll see that Doug is not suggesting we stop observing DST, just that we consider having the entire state observe it back in one time zone again.
I disagree with wl3048.
The main thing I see is that we have less than 9½ hours of daylight in Indianapolis from December 5 through January 7 to divide up before and after 12:00 noon. It’s likely most Hoosiers would agree that even if we could divide the daylight exactly evenly between morning and evening, most of us would still not mind if the sun rose earlier and set later than it does in the dead of Hoosier winter. The only way to make this happen is to live closer to the equator than Indiana is.
If we divide up the available daylight hours in Indianapolis on December 25 evenly between morning and evening, the sun would rise at 7:19 am and set at 4:41 pm.
These are the natural sunrise/sunset times for that day at our latitude. This is easy enough to confirm by looking at the sunrise/set times for other U.S. cities at Indiana’s latitude and in the middle of their time zone.
http://aa.usno.navy.mil/data/docs/RS_OneYear.php
The sun rises and sets on December 25 at the following times:
7:21 am / 4:41 pm, Philadelphia
7:17 am / 4:45 pm, St. Louis
7:19 am / 4:41 pm, Denver
7:18 am / 4:41 pm, Reno
Comparing the two options for Indianapolis against the natural rise/set times of 7:19 am and 4:41 pm, we see that central time shifts 15 minutes of daylight from evening to morning during the four months of “standard” time, while eastern shifts 45 minutes of daylight from morning to evening — nearly the equivalent of winter DST.
7:04 am / 4:25 pm, Indianapolis, central standard time
8:04 am / 5:25 pm, Indianapolis, eastern standard time
So the current situation is biased rather strongly against those who prefer to see a fair share of sunlight in the early morning hours.
The last time a nonbinding, statewide referendum was conducted, in 1956, the only clear consensus that emerged was that most opposed the “double-fast time” that would result from being on Eastern Standard Time and switching to Eastern Daylight Time in the summer.
http://tinyurl.com/296mt9
This is exactly the situation in which most of the state now finds itself for the eight DST months of the year — with about 1 hour 45 minutes of sunlight shifted from morning to evening.
Comparing Indiana to other states with two time zones, we are the narrowest state in that situation, by quite a margin.
Not that many years ago, Ohio was split into two time zones and Indiana was entirely in the central zone.
The natural midpoint between eastern and central time zones is at 82½ degrees — through the middle of Ohio and along the eastern borders of Michigan, Kentucky, and Tennessee.
It’s easy to see why Ohio would have wanted the boundary pushed from the middle of the state to their western border. It’s less obvious why Hoosiers would have wanted to see the time zone boundary pushed further west into Indiana in the early 1960’s, splitting a previously united state into two time zones.
As Hoosiers have witnessed the last couple of years in the two western corners of the state, there is a lot of discomfort and inconvenience when neighboring counties in the same state are on different time zones, and when a county is on a different time zone than its state capitol. From viewing comments on the DOT docket, it seems to me that much of the jockeying between zones we have witnessed in these corners of Indiana recently has been primarily for those two reasons.
Regards, Bill Starr
Columbus, Indiana
Fri, 28 Dec 2007, 2:26 pm EST
Joe,
I’ll beat Doug and some others to the punch…
Why is it over, as you say? The issue has been debated for well over 30 years before getting changed to this format AFTER we moved to Eastern time as a compromise to DST.
If the issue was “over”, then it should have been over when the compromise was reached in the 60’s.
Well, *thought* was going to beat some others to the punch, but then fellow Columbus resident Bill comes along with a body-slam. Nice one, Mr. Starr.
Bill:
You can bring out all of the links, statistics, analysis etc. etc. etc., but sunsets an hour ealier this time of the year are what they are (and hopefully will never be in Indiana) They’d SUCK!! and would be extremely unpopular if we ever did that. And if you don’t beleive me, look at some of the reasons why the counties (Pike, Knox, etc) moved back to Eastern. Early sunsets in December, January were VERY unpopular with many of the folks down there…….
All right, first of all — let’s dispense with the idea of scoring points off of one another. For whatever reason, it’s easy to get worked up about our time zone problems.
More substantively, what sucks is the limited amount of daylight. But, much as I dislike earlier sunsets, I also dislike later sunrises. So, for me, it’s a pick your poison kind of thing.
You know, in the big scope of things, it’s reassuring to know the most important thing on hoosiers minds is an hour plus or minus on their watch. Have a binding statewide referendum and be done with it.
As one stuck in the CST for eleven years in IN, I’d love to see the whole state united on one time zone. The ealry sunsets last only two months, and during one of those months you have the extra darkness to enjoy Christmas ligts. (At least that’s what I tell myself!) When you’re on the edge of a time zone you’re going to suffer one way or another. Why not at least make it to where the whole state suffers in a united front?
Well put, Doug, as far as the “pick your poison” way of looking at the early sunsets and late sunrises of Hoosier winters.
It’s probably obvious, but I believe I’d prefer having my sunsets 15 minutes earlier than typical for our latitude in order to have sunrises 15 minutes earlier than typical (central time), as opposed to the current situation of enduring sunrises 45 minutes later than typical so we can have sunsets 45 minutes later than typical (eastern time).
It’s too late to say that the earlier sunsets and sunrises of central time “will never be” in Indiana. They already were, and may yet be again.
http://www2.indystar.com/library/factfiles/history/time/index.html
Excluding the northwest and southwest counties which have stayed on central time since standard time zones started, even the rest of the state had those central time winter sunrise and sunset times for a lot longer than we’ve had the eastern time version.
For those parts of Indiana that observed standard time zones after the railroads instituted the idea in 1883, the entire state observed central time for the next 78 or so years until 1961. Even the eastern portions of Indiana have effectively observed central time for the 6 or 7 DST months of the year, with our clocks on the same time as St. Louis, from about 1967 until 2005.
Bill
Fri, 28 Dec 2007, 10:38 pm EST
It is never going to happen. Indianapolis will always tie itself with Cincy and Louisville, and where the capital/largest city/economic core of Indiana goes, the majority of the state goes.
That may be the conventional wisdom, that Indianapolis sentiment would keep the majority of the state on eastern time, but a majority of the state legislators would trump Marion County preference, any session they are of a mind to do so.
The DOT has repeatedly indicated that they would seriously consider any statewide proposal from the Indiana legislature.
Consistent constituent pressure would likely influence the legislators to seriously consider moving Indiana back into a single time zone. They tend to enjoy being reelected.
Bill Starr
Sun, 30 Dec 2007, 7:11 pm EST
Indianapolis is neither the economic core nor the nearest large city for much of northern Indiana, Chicago is. And it is the location for many federal offices covering Indiana, making it a significant governmental center as well. By Bob’s logic, South Bend should be on Central Time.
If I had to pick, I’d rather have the later sunsets- to the point that I’d LOVE to see us get away from eastern time, and on to Atlantic Time. That’s just a subjective thing, although I positively HATED working in the Chicago area Oct-Dec. 4:15 and dusk? Screw that.
I think that if the shortness of daylight is genuinely a “serious issue” for anyone, they really need to consider moving south to get the daylight they need. It has to be the least pressing possible item for consideration by our legislature.
With an issue this divisive it would seem the best thing to do would be to put the time zone question on the ballot and let the people decide. (As a Kentuckian I wouldn’t be able to vote in such an election but it would be good for Hoosier voters to be heard.) I read an article at MSNBC yesterday that Michael Bloomberg may be considering tossing his hat into the ring to run as an Independent Candidate. That could be a good thing at least for me, I can’t get too excited about any of the candidates running. I’m heading to Nashville today with some friends to The Music City Bowl for the UK-Florida State matchup. Hope you all have a safe and Happy New Year.