Deanna Martin with the Associated Press has an article on the General Assembly’s summer study committee on the immigration issue. Study committees are frequently where contentious legislation goes to die. The legislation won’t pass for whatever reason and it gets changed into a study committee on the issue. Sometimes differences are worked out and new, successful legislation is recommended. Often, however, legislators listen politely to testimony, collect their summer per diem, and nothing comes of it. (At least not directly, having more informed legislators certainly doesn’t hurt anything.)
This one is likely to be more contentious than most. Each side seems to want to cherry pick the evidence that’s presented. The anti-immigration crowd wants to talk about crime. The pro-immigration crowd wants to talk about the benefits. The Chamber wants to take the focus away from businesses who hire illegals and onto the illegals themselves. Somewhere in the back of my head, circus music is playing.
Waste of time.Like all other problems it has to become massive before people complain enough and make their representstives do something.Arizona,Oklahoma,Misouri,Mississippi etc.
And many of the jobs that illegals are doing are jobs that no Caucasian wants to do. At my first call, there was a family who owned a large apple orchard. I’d say at least 9 out of 10 of the people working there were Hispanic-and the majority of those who were Caucasian were members of the family. The only non-family Caucasians were the high school girls they would hire to work the cash registers. I never asked about the status of their workforce, but considering they would show up for the busy season and leave to go somewhere else in November, I could easily surmise their status.
I could tell you other instances of illegals I ran into in La Porte. Most were good citizens in the community-at least as good as you can be when you don’t “exist”-but I want to keep this post rather short.
Scott Pelath will make sure that this is a dead issue, because it would affect many employers in La Porte county-his home county.
I know this is off the topic, but I thought you’d like this: http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/07/jesse-ventura-t.html
BTW My wife knew Jesse Ventura back in the day when he was mayor. He might just be the enema that congress needs;-)
B.S. That line should read “jobs that no Caucasian wants to do for the amount that is currently being paid“.
Again, I find it amusing when companies cry that “there are not enough people qualified to do XYZ work” or “we can’t hire enough people to do the ‘non-white’ work around here”. In a free market (even in our quasi-free market), both of those statements can be fixed by increasing the amount paid to do that work.
Instead, we look the other way at illegal jobs that are paid very low wages because we “need” them, then raise the minimum wage law so that high school kids can get a better wage for their summer work and those that are actually supporting a family on a low (but not minimum) get no benefit.
Here’s my stock story for why illegals get jobs ‘no caucasion will take at the pay’.
I had a friend who worked at Miller Pipeline, installing services to new homes for Vectren Gas. He was always looking for a laborer. I’d ask what the new hire had to do.
he: He has to show up every day.
me: OK, what else?
he: He has to show up on time every day.
me: Heh, ok. What else?
he: He has to be sober.
me: OK, but what does he have to do?
he: Oh, move pipe from the truck to the hole, use a shovel, clean up the roadway when we’re done. Little errands.
me: OK, what’s it pay?
he: $18/hr.
me: You can’t get somebody at that price?
he: Oh, we can. We get someone who shows up for three days, and then decides he can take Thursday off. Or, he’ll show up for a week, and then on Monday be blasted or hungover. That’s why we hire illegals.
me: They show up?
he: Well, even if they don’t, they at least replace themselves. One day Jose wasn’t there, but some other guy turned up. It was his cousin. I appreciate that, because then I can keep working.
So, I think one of the problems we don’t really want to look at is that our collective work ethic has gone several notches down. $18/hr is $36,000/yr- before overtime. That’s damn good money for not having to know a whole lot, or do a whole lot. Great opportunity for a recent grad who isn’t going to college. Alas. My buddy would have rather been hiring people who speak English, but he has a job to do, and he’s going to get it done with either the A-list or the B-list.
Now that the illegals are here, they are putting a great pressure on the native population, because they drive the price for wages down… just like my Polish, Irish, and Slovenian ancestors did 100 years ago.
Because they do jobs americans won’t do.a mythprepetuated by the Chamber of Commerce and business lobby.Any job that pays 18$ a hour around here is quickly filled.Is everyone a good worker probably not but are all illegal immigrants good workers?The business community prepetuates this no american will do the job theory to keep wages low and to make sure their supply of cheap labor continues because they profit from it.
No one in the illegal immigrant community has drinking or substanceissues.I could list a number of circumstances of repeat illegal alien offenders with multiple DUI’s involved in driving while intoxicated causing death in the past year I believe such a circumstance just occurred in Columbus a while back.
Back to the point of the no american will do the job and by the way we have a agricultural guest worker program already in this country the business community will always sound this alarm because it’s in their self interes.As someone with a conservative view on border security let me say that I do believe their are legitimate concerns from the Hispanic community of profiling when states inact anti-illegal immigration laws and I always listen to the other sides point of view.I’ve listened to Janet Mergiuia president of LA RAZA,representatives from MALDEFand other groups.
I do however totaly tune out the Chamber of Commerce and the business lobby who don’t give one damn about these people and are only worrying about the best way to exploit them and keep the supply of cheap labor flowing in order to profit from the situation.
Your friend at Miller Pipeline may betelling you the truth I have no clue but the vast majority of these situations where the phrase doing the jobs americans won’t do is way overstated and inaccurate.
Just recently a group of illegal aliens went to court to collect overtime pay they were not getting and won.These people often work in abusive work enviroments and are taken advantage of so excuse me if I won’t take most business people and the Chamber of Commerce’s word on the “they’re just doing the jobs americans won’t do”
Mike,
You seem to be describing an work ethic difference between ethnic backgrounds. As a general rule, I can buy that. Men and women are different, Irish and Germans are different, so I can see that “Americans” and “Mexicans” would be different, as a general rule.
But, their legal / illegal status having some relevance to their work ethic? That I don’t get. Let’s just make people become citizens before we hire them.
Yeah, but in the case of agricultural products-are we willing to pay the extra cost at the grocery store of hiring someone for what they’re worth?
That’s the real reason why this will always be swept under the carpet.
PTN- My friend at Miller Pipeline was always talking to me as a friend. He was lamenting what he saw. He is also a union man at heart, and he lamented that a union doesn’t stand a chance where a worker won’t be dedicated enough to fight for a job, let alone show up on time. His crew was a revolving door.
Jason- I agree with you to a great degree, that there should be firm policy about being here illegally. That idealism isn’t getting any play these days. Actually, it’s an issue that makes a great case for idealism versus so-called ‘practical’ politics.
Mike Kole,as I stated I wasn’t implying your friend was being untruthful just that in my experience most of these claims business people make are way overblown.
I thought of this conversation last night as I was watching Ted Koppels investigative piece on China part one.In the piece it showed how Briggs and Stratton had relocated a Rolla Missouri plant to China in 2007 and was showing a woman in particular but many men worked in the plant also at a job fair.She as I imagine many at the plant also made $11.20 a hour.Somehow I believe many of these folks would jump at the opportunity for a $18.00 a hour job.
I have several friends who are members of the operating engineers and laborors unions(construction work).They always have a waiting list especially the operators for work and membership.Of course this is in Sw Indiana so maybe region has something to do with it.
I highly reccomend Kopples report on and look inside of China for those who would like a first hand look at the global economy and it’s effects on the american economy and workers.
When the lady who lost her job at the Rolla plant was asked where she shopped of course it was at Wal Mart not her hometown stores because it was cheaper and why was everything cheaper at Wal Mart we all know the answer to that.
Rev,
I am, but I also don’t shop at Wal-Mart because of their employment and outsourcing practices.
I find it sadly amusing how many people lament the amount of work going to China or how little the American worker is being paid, then walk into Wal-Mart because it is the cheapest.
The consumers, in the end, are to blame for jobs going overseas more than the big companies. If we found it important enough to keep jobs here, we would buy that way and pay the extra. However, it is very two-faced to say that it is wrong for businesses to save money by sending jobs overseas when we save money because they do…
I also have a friend who runs a trailer factory in Northern Indiana. He told a similar story to Mike Kole’s friend – that he couldn’t get “other” workers to show up regularly and sober. He also said that if he fired the “illegals” that they would just go to the factory next door. He’s made them “skilled” and now his competition is reaping the benefits. His only problem was that he kept getting heat from his boss that not enough of the workers were contributing to the company’s 401K.
Jason-I have four young kids and I have to say that I generally shop where I’ll find the cheapest price. (Although I refuse to shop at Wal-mart-not so much for where they get their products but because I always feel like I loose 100 IQ points each time I’m in there. I also have an extreme urge to burn my clothes and take a shower.) I’m more of a Target “snob.” With gas, energy costs, food costs, and property taxes on the rise; I’m left with little choice.
Rev,
First, I understand, and know most people that go for the lowest price don’t have extra cash lying around.
However, the more we buy with “lowest cost” as our top priority, the lower our wages get because more jobs are going away to fill the cost requirement we demand.
It is a downward spiral. The only way we can stop it IMHO is to buy less, and buy better. Same amount of money leaving the door, but less “stuff” coming in. Most of the people I know don’t have extra money, but most also buy more “stuff” than they need.
I am by no means flawless in this regard. I blow too much money on stuff that I shouldn’t, and I don’t check well on where my products are coming from. It has only been recently that I started down this road, and I think it will be a process that I never complete.
The more people that start just improving on their habits (be it buying better, or spending less gas, or recycling more, etc), the better we’ll all be.
We always try to not buy things from China the best we can but it’s tough.I highly advise to stay away from Chinese produced sea food and other food products from China.Around the holidays there seemed to be recalls every day for Chinese products especially toys because of high lead content.
Electronics are especially tough.We have two HD plasmas and I believe both were manufactured in China.
Kopple reported on the fact that China’s biggest problem which is overpopulation is also it’s greatest asset by providng cheap labor.A small segment of the population is starting to become somewhat affluent and showed a young couple a stay at home mom and a manufacturing executive.They had a very nice house filled with american made appliances and furniture because they stated the workmanship was better.
He interviewed a young woman doing quality control on boom boxes being assembled for Wal Mart who made $3 a day.He also interviewed a young woman in a North Carolina furniture factory where the young Chineses couple aboves sofa came from(the name of the furniture escapes me but it’s a name brand and the sofa is around $2000) who does quality control for $20 a hour.
Most of the Chinese population however remains below the poverty level and of course there is the one child per family rule.
Americans we need to change our Constitution on immigration.
Why do we allow illegals to come into the United States to carry out fraud.
Let’s stop the illegals from having babies to receive citizenship for their children.
Thank you Mr. Mason for pointing out the law below:
“That would require an amendment to the U.S. Constitution which states that “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
I believe that’s a direct result of the manner in which the Dred Scott court decided that slaves weren’t citizens.”
I’m not a lawyer, just a law abiding tax payer. Illegals that come to our country to have babies for citizenship due to a loop hole in our constitution are circumventing the system. It’s wrong.
We need an amendement that states, All persons must be naturalized before your is child born in the United States. I’m sure it can and will be said better.
Bobett,
Why shouldn’t they be citizens if they are born here and grow up here? If they’re taking a job after 18 years of living here, they’re welcome to it!
Their parents are not citizens, even if they have a child born here. It isn’t the child’s fault if the parents are doing something illegal.
Are you 100% sure that the people that gave birth to the first “American” generation of your family were legal? Would you be willing to be deported until you have gone through the immigration process if not?
Jason:
Pay your bills and then some more…tell me it’s ok for Illegals to come to our country to have babies for citizenship due to a loop hole in our constitution. (It’s wrong for Illegals & Americans to circumvent the system.)
Yes, I’m 100% sure under 18 or over 18 years Our.. USA immigration process should abide by the USA constitution!
Deport all those that do not go through the proper process no matter what country they come from.
Bobett,
It isn’t a loophole. If you were born here, you’re a citizen. That was very much the intent.
Yes…
Maybe U.S.A. Americans agree that times and circumstances have changed. Maybe we need to clarify the rules to keep our U.S.A.
boundaries protected and enforce the rights of U.S.A citizens.
Let’s keep our U.S.A. I’m not willing to sell out either.