Just watched the debate between Biden and Palin. Biden knew stuff. Palin, not so much. But, she dropped her “g”s much better than Biden. And said “maverick” a lot.
Update
Here is an exchange that sort of shows what I mean:
IFILL: Governor, you mentioned a moment ago the Constitution might give the Vice President more power than it has in the past. Do you believe as Vice President Cheney does, that the Executive Branch does not hold complete sway over the office of the vice presidency, that it it is also a member of the Legislative Branch?
PALIN: Well, our founding fathers were very wise there in allowing through the Constitution much flexibility there in the office of the Vice President. And we will do what is best for the American people in tapping into that position and ushering in an agenda that is supportive and cooperative with the president’s agenda in that position. Yeah, so I do agree with him that we have a lot of flexibility in there, and we’ll do what we have to do to administer very appropriately the plans that are needed for this nation.
What does this mean? Let’s break it down to see if any content is trapped in there somewhere:
1. The Constitution is flexible about the office of the Vice President. — O.k., only if you mean the document is mostly silent on the subject. Chalk one up for a liberal construction of the Constitution.
2. I’ll cooperate with the President. — Umm, o.k. We kind of assumed that already.
3. More words, rehashing the non-content in the first two sentences.
None of which hints at an understanding of the crazy theories Cheney has advanced in pursuit of his own personal power and to avoid accountability.
Well, doggone-it, and those nuke-u-ler weapons also!
I’m pretty sure that Palin, personally, winked at me three times during the debate. I must impress her with my Joe Sixpack ways!
YA! I’m really impressed with her Fargo speak.
Marge Gunderson minus the intelligence.
What’s especially impressive about Biden is the sincere way he “knows stuff” that isn’t true.
I was kind of hoping he’d hold up FDR going on television to reassure people about the Great Depression as an example of leadership again – but you can’t have everything.
But sure, nitpick Palin and give Biden a pass – reasoning from your conclusions saves so much time, doesn’t it?
Biden talking about FDR on TV instead of radio. Really? That’s an appropriate counter to the Palin bafflegab we’ve been seeing? And I’m the one reasoning backward from conclusions?
Even if you don’t like his policy positions, Biden has demonstrated a minimal working knowledge of the federal government, how it works, and the issues it faces. Palin just hasn’t.
She opens her mouth, and it’s a soup of mavericky buzzwords. I’m not saying she’s stupid; she clearly isn’t. But she is either so indifferently curious to issues of federal governance that she hasn’t acquired basic knowledge that would allow her to put together substantive responses; or she won’t level with us about what she thinks for fear that we might disagree with her.
Biden’s going to hold up very well, fact-check wise. When Palin was selling her bullshit, I was wondering who could possibly be buying. Parker volunteers that he is.
Biden might do worse on the fact-check score only because he provided a lot of them. Hard to fact-check “we’re mavericky mavericks.”
I listened to this debate, rather than watching – thus I missed the winks and references to notes on the podium, which others found intriguing. Interesting to hear Palin attack Biden with what he supposedly said (I don’t know one way or the other) about Obama during the primaries.
Are the debates about facts or about stage presence?
My impression was that Palin was a wind-up doll with 2 double A batteries and she had to get out her infomercials before she lost power. She went on to her next point regardless of the following question.By the last half of the debate she had loosened up and was winking at people and making down-home quips,for which she got lots of points from conservative political pundits,and surely conservative rank and file were likewise impressed.
But I had students like that.They’d answer what they had crammed for,because dammit,they learned it, and they were going to write it, no matter what the question was.Test questions were irrelevant.
But hard work should be somehow rewarded,and Palin deserves credit for some very hard work preparing herself,and her reward is greater acceptance from the conservative base.
Let’s just hope that if she should ever become president,what she has to deal with matches what she crammed for.
And what’s with that hole in her soul where empathy is supposed to be?
Yeah, I wondered that as well, when Biden had a genuinely touching moment.. and she went right on spouting the crap she’d practiced. Frankly, I don’t think she even listened to him.. and she had NO freakin idea what an Achilles Heel is.. or wished not to reveal any. I’d still have asked her what she likes to read. Assuming she DOES read.
BTW Doug, the reference in today’s paper to the College Dems watching the debate last night included the fact that they played “Palin Bingo” while stuffing envelopes for Nels Ackerson. I brought the bingo cards and the prizes.. just wanted the credit somewhere. :-)
Oh, yes – difficult to fact-check such Biden gems as:
It would be great to see Hezbollah kicked out of either Lebanon or existence – but it has never been done. Not by us, not by France, and not by the Lebanese.
So this whole statement is gobsmackingly disconnected from reality. Which, of course, is ‘just Joe being Joe’.
But, move along, these aren’t the droids you’re looking for…
O.k., I’m convinced; Palin has demonstrated command of the facts, curiosity about the world, and sound judgment based on the facts she knows and would discover through diligent inquiry that she would be a better President than Joe Biden.
Gov. Palin did okay at achieving the Republican’s primary goal: obfuscating the fact that a John McCain presidency would be very little different than another George Bush term.
Give her due credit, and send her back to Alaska.
Actually, I think she would – not because of her own inherent wonderfullness, but because the alternative is a guy who makes things up and has a history of being wrong on both economics and foreign policy.
My own big gripe with both of them in the debate is that neither one pointed out that our current economic fun is in large part the result of at least thirty years of congressional stupidity and greed that inflated housing prices, which is now sticking us all with the job of picking up from a burst bubble.
“Doctor, it hurts when I do this.”
“Well, stop doing that.”
Congress – please – stop doing that!
At least we agree that knowing the causes of problems is valuable in figuring out how to fix them.
Gov. Palin disagrees, at least when it comes to figuring out what is causing global warming.
Parker–
Did you question that Hezbollah statement when you heard it, or did you read one of the dozens of rightwing sites that just came up when I googled it?
I guess he meant to say “Syria” rather than “Hezbollah”? I don’t know, and couldn’t give two shits. They were talking for ninety minutes. Joe Sixpack didn’t notice.
I’m guessing if I had turned on the tape recorder that was Sarah Palin last night, she would have been absolutely useless in clearing up Biden’s misstatement. If her weak-ass team hadn’t campaigned successfully against the right of followup questioning, maybe Ifill would have asked him about that flub. But we all know that followup questions make Palin pee herself, so they weren’t allowed.
Doug, you backward-looking guy with your wanting to find cause and effect. That’s what I call the blame game.
Don’cha know there’s nothing facing us that can’t be solved with some good ol’ American exceptionalism? America just has to get up and get to gettin’. If that doesn’t convince ya, would it help to know I’m scrunching up my nose in a really cute fashion as I’m writing this?
“Let’s not get into which party’s fiscal policies bankrupted which country or whose disastrous foreign policy got which military into an inescapable occupation.”
Or, to quote Otter from Animal House:
It was just pointed out to me that Peggy Noonan described Palin’s presentation as ‘infomercials’.So I must publically congratulate myself for anticipating the same language usage as a noted author ,commentator,and
political analyst.
T –
Just for the record, the U.S. and France didn’t kick Syria out of Lebanon, either – although I’m sure they were happy with that outcome.
By the way, did you come up with that gratuitous ad hominem attack on Gov. Palin yourself, or was it from one of the dozens of left wing sites that came up when I Googled it?
Nice straw man in the 10:11, too – want to go for a ‘post hoc ergo propter hoc’ for the hat trick?
Well, if we’re just goofin’ – I’d say that Palin’s speech caused the stock market to tank.
But, really, if we’re getting real, we should probably just start calling each other Nazis and go for the Godwin.
Hoosier 1st comments:
I believe she answered Katie Couric on a similar question (albeit limited to newspapers and magazines):
Straw man? I was paraphrasing her arguments. Those are her ideas, which she put forward. The nose part was a visual, of course. All night long, that cute widdle bugger kept a’winkin’ and a’scrunchin’. I just wanted to give her a big ol’ hug and tell her how proud I was that she chatted so well, and for so long!
My critiques of her are my own. Although I can’t be the only one who thought at some point Gwen was going to have to go press “Play” on the ol’ Palin to get some of the answers out.
Doug– We can’t call each other Nazis until we agree to stop all being Georgians.
I, too, hate Illinois Nazis – I can’t imagine how horrible Hoosier Nazis would be – but suspect we could come together to oppose them.
It’s the Illuminati (Reformed) that may be too much for us – even with the shiny side out…
Yeah, Brenda, that was my point. I guess she was afraid to be blunt as say she reads the headlines of the National Enquirer, People and US Weekly as she stands in line for her groceries. Wait, she woulda said that if she did it– it’s so hockey-momish.
Uhm, maybe she coulda just thrown out a few names of media we all know.. like CNN, CBS, New Your Times or Walkl Street Journal. Nah… even Katie Couric woulda been hard pressed not to laugh at that. Heck, even Say-ruh Pay-lun woulda had to keep from gigglin’.
Someone call the WAAAAAHMBULANCE for Parker, please.
Seriously, Palin refused to even stick to the damn rules of the debate, making a point of not answering questions. She didn’t win, Biden didn’t lose, and you, my little troll, are just wasting time trying to convince everyone of your lies.
Easy now. I don’t think Parker called anyone names. So, disagree with him all you want, but I’ve seen trolls and Parker isn’t one.
Yeah, back off Parker. He and I are not going to see the same thing the same way (he always sees the old woman in this optical illusion, while I always see the young one). But like today, when he sounded the alarm about Biden’s Hezbollah statement, it was relevant.
Biden’s excellence compared to Palin was evident to the majority of those viewing. But you’re never going to convince everyone of even the most evident things in life. Don’cha know? And that’s what makes America great, like Reagan said. You won’t get Parker to wave a white flag of surrender on this one.
Doug –
Pretty mild, as these things go, really. Fortunately, I wear the shiny side out, so it just reflects back on Damian.
A little curious about my ‘lies’, though – or is that just a term to describe any opinion Damian doesn’t like?
I’m largely trying to point out that some folks seem to be holding Biden and Palin to different standards – or so it appears to me.
[Damian – that really is my opinion – so characterizing it as a ‘lie’ would be inherently mistaken. Just trying to save you a little time…]
OK, this is just embarrassing…
FOX news had Sarah Punkin on to give her one more stab at that Supreme Court question, and she nailed it with about a two minute answer.
Maybe they can just give her all the questions ahead of time, like an open-book or take home test, and then just broadcast all of her awesome answers. It’s like watching her play the journalism equivalent of whiffle T-ball, with a batting helmet on.
It’s like my son’s soccer team, we’re all winners!
Message #29 meant “back off *of* Parker”, not for Parker to back off. Sarah Barracuda ate my English language.
Personally, I blame global warming.
For EVERYTHING.
(And T, I took your meaning – no problem).
Ooh, and Sarah also tells Fox News she reads the New York Times, Wall St. Journal, and the Economist.
Now was that really all that hard?
She also tells Fox News that she knew the answers before, but she was “annoyed at the mainstream media” per Carl “John Kerry loves manicures, but not really I just made that up” Cameron.
I think she just found her Easy Button.
Since Parker’s still here, I’ll intrude on his worldview a bit to answer this question: Is her nailing of these questions days later, on a friendly news channel, credible? Does it undo anything? Does it unshit her bed?
And for extra credit, imagine the reaction if Al Gore tried a similar do over.
If you’re going to answer it, doesn’t that mean I should get to ask it?
If I do, I’ll try not to incorporate an unsupported presumption…those are called the ‘when did you stop beating your wife?’ questions.
And do I have to start the weekend thinking about Al Gore? I wouldn’t even wish that on Al Gore…I fear his power to make it snow…
Somewhere it is snowing. And somewhere there is Al Gore. You tell me what it means.
I meant to say “ask”, not “answer”. I keep having those General McClellan moments at the keyboard today.
My guess is that many in the base will treasure the knowledge her do overs demonstrates. The more cynical on the Right will see them as a necessary, embarrassing evil, and consider it a teaching moment for if they ever consider drafting a dummy again. Everyone else will wonder why she still needs training wheels if she did so awesome just last night.
It means that Al Gore commands the forces of nature.
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
And be covered with snow.
Hey T….In post #6 you mentioned “Biden’s going to hold up very well, fact-check wise.”
You still feel comfortable with that statement?? Ol’ greasy just kinda makes it up as he goes along…..
Just Joe being Joe, right? Ask ’em down at home depot, I guess. Or at Katey’s in Scranton, oh wait they closed during the clinton administration…
heh heh heh……Greasy Joe….
Maverick: an unbranded range animal that has become separated from its mother, traditionally considered the property of the first person who brands it.
If their performance hadn’t done so, everyone here has convinced me that neither Palin nor Biden are worthy of being VP. Frankly, I wouldn’t want either as a Senator or a Governor, but there we are- The Peter Principle at work.
Tim–
Yes.
I went on peoplefinder, and there’s no such person as Joe Sixpack.
T..So you don’t care when Joe blatantly embellishes and flat out fabricates stuff? I know they ALL obfuscate, but you gotta be honest, Ol’ Joe just flat out makes shit up, to the point of being comical. Hell even his own party and handlers just laugh it off. It’s kind of disturbing. I personally find the guy likeable as hell most of the time, in that “used car salesman” kind of way.
I believe he referenced a place he used to eat at or know, right? Then it closed, and he didn’t know. But that could have represented a typical place where people are saying the same things.
I still have not been able to find the existence of anyone with the last name of “Sixpack”. It’s kind of disturbing, since he’s the person she keeps saying she’s going to help.
I could hear the conversation now: “Um… Joe… Katie’s closed years ago. It’ a wing place now.”
Joe: “Oh. Well the sign in back still says, “Parking for Katie’s patrons only.'”
Compare and contrast with Palin’s misstatement that McCain never voted against funding for the troops. Which one matters more? Rail against that, Tim, if you think it matters. Maybe it doesn’t, though. War funding vs. whether or not you can get decent Italian or wings in Wilmington. That’s a tough call.
I hear Home Depot still exists, although rightwingers are calling to ask if anyone’s ever seen Joe Biden there. Sounds like a lot of people putting the focus squarely where it belongs.
Yikes. Palin said in the debate that she and legislators realized that having Alaska’s Permanent Fund invested in Sudan was a bad thing, so they divested. In reality, legislators introduced a bill doing that, and her administration fought it. The implications of this are far less than whether Katie’s Restraurant is still open, of course.