Once Indiana had the best high school basketball tournament in the world. Now, we no longer do. We gave it away so that more people could get trophies and more athletic directors could feel good about themselves. The people who gave it away and feel good about themselves studied themselves and concluded that they are A-OK.
Current students who were, at oldest, three years old when the single-class basketball format was abandoned don’t know anything about it. They and the administrators of their schools voted heavily in favor of the current class-based system. On the other side, a self-selecting group of people who showed up at hearings on the issue voted overwhelmingly in favor of a return to the single class system. I don’t know whether there has been reliable polling of the state as a whole. Measuring attendance, it is abundantly clear that spectators like the current system much less than the old one.
All I know is that Indiana once had something special; something transcendent and state-defining. Now we don’t. Maybe it’s better for the boys playing basketball to have their end-of-year tournament normalized with the other sports and the other states rather than doing something a little different and exciting. It’s not especially good for a state that used to have a special passion for the sport. We’ve been lobotomized and our Hoosier Hysteria is cured.
Kyle Stokes has more.
That link did weird things to my browser, including not going to Kyle Stoke’s coverage.
Must have been AD/Principal induced sabotage…
Fixed the link. I forgot to put the “http” into the anchor tag.
Doug,
“Current students who were, at oldest, three years old when the single-class basketball format was abandoned don’t know anything about it.”
They can always watch “Hoosiers”and wax nostalgically.
Nostalgia for the only time in 50 years Cinderella did anything…
This whole thing reminds me of the sketch in The Meaning of Life where the teachers pit the seniors against the 7th graders in Rugby and then cheer for the big kid bullies to crush the little ones.
Why does Ben Davis want to play Speedway, rather than North Central? I think we know why
Objection, false premise. I’m the graduate of a smallish school, (not Centerville small, but a school at the low end of 3A under the current setup), which played in a sectional with two big schools, including an all-time power. As I noted above, the only pleasure I derive from the current setup is that schools such as Richmond and New Castle have to pick on someone their own size in the sectional. All that said, you really misunderstand or misremember the Tournament if you think that Milan’s 1954 title is the “only time in 50 years Cinderella did anything.” While no truly small school ever won the Tournament after Milan, there still were great moments for the little guy. Schools such as Whitko, Argos, and Shenandoah advanced all the way to Indy, and even a sectional title for a small school (think Daleville in the Anderson sectional in 1985, Yorktown in the Muncie Sectional, Mississinewa in the Marion sectional, Centerville in the Richmond sectional, etc.) could be as big as a class title under the current setup. And it’s not post-hoc nostalgia. Here’s what Daleville coach Everett Gates said when his school won the Anderson sectional in 1985: “I would rather win the Anderson Sectional under Indiana’s present system, than win a state championship in class basketball.”
We see the same effect in the NCAA Tournament. People remember Bryce Drew’s shot over Ole Miss in 1998, even though Valpo advanced only to the Sweet 16. Other runs, such as those by Ball State in 1990, Norfolk State last year, Richmond and Cleveland State over IU in 1988 and 1986, remain well known. Everyone remembers Bryce Drew; how many of even the most devoted college basketball fans could name the 1998 Division II NCAA title winner? Yes, the old system was unfair, but its significance and awesomeness far outweighed the unfairness.
I note that all of the NCAA upsets you remember (except for one from last year) have an Indiana connection. While the upsets certainly make the game more memorable, these games were more than likely a big deal because of the proximity value as well.
People seem to forget that the focus of high school basketball is to provide positive experience for the high schoolers that actually play the game, not the supposed “adults” like coaches, parents and others that wish to crow about living within the boundary lines of the high school that plays the best basketball in the section/region/state.
No, I specifically listed Indiana schools because I figured that a wider swath of Doug’s readers would remember them. Duke-Lehigh, Duke-Eastern Michigan, Duke-VCU, UNC-Weber State, Ohio-Georgetown, VCU-Georgetown, Syracuse-Richmond, Missouri-Norfolk State, Iowa State-Hampton, Iowa-Northwestern State, Kansas-Northern Iowa, Kansas-Bucknell. That’s off the top of my head. Surely you aren’t disagreeing with the notion that the upsets and near upsets are a huge part of the appeal of the NCAA Tournament, are you? If you disagree with that universally accepted premise, then there’s probably nothing for us to discuss.
There is no rational interpretation of my comment which would give a reasonable person the suggestion that I disagree with upsets being part of the appeal of the NCAA tournament, or sports, for that matter.
Well, John, I was there in 1985 when Daleville beat Anderson and I got to say, aside from the nostalgia from a middle aged man, my Speedway Sparks seem more happy with their AA championship than even the Daleville kids were the next weekend, when they got smoked at Regionals.
The fact you think that finishing 30th in the state is better than winning a fair championship is more Hoosier reactionary silliness.
Well, I remember Daleville winning that sectional. On the other hand, I have no recollection of Speedway winning the 2A title, even though I live in Indy and it was much more recent. I’m no reactionary. Neither is Doug. I agree that Hoosiers can be change averse, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t such a thing as a change for the worse.
As a transplant to Hoosier nation, I really have no problem with the current format. It seems much more realistic to me to match up large schools against other large schools and have an even playing field. I recognize this doesn’t help regional rivalries, but it does seem to give a more level playing field.
I might draw a correlation to the NCAA Tournament. Everyone remembers the George Mason trip to the Final Four as being exciting and a good thing. But nobody ever talks about the boring fact that a #16 seed has never beaten a #1, EVER. Those two facts are intertwined.
I don’t think anyone would suggest that fairness was a hallmark of the old system. Well, considering that this blog is written by a Richmond grad, I suppose he just thinks an effective bye into the regional every year is the natural order of things. (I kid, Doug…sorta). I have no objection to the notion of class sports in general. The old tournament was such a cultural event, however, that the defensibility of class sports in a vacuum doesn’t justify Indiana’s move.
And people talk about the fact that a 16 has never beat a 1 every single year, especially when a 16 seed makes a run, such as against Syracuse last year, or when Western Carolina nearly knocked off Purdue in 1996, or Georgetown-Princeton in 1989.
Oh, my Richmond origins makes me horribly biased on this subject. But I still think I’m right. And we lost to Centerville that one time. It still hurts. I bet they still remember it fondly as well.
If I was inventing the system, maybe the single tournament isn’t what I would come up with. But having grown up in it, loved it, watched a movie about it and having experienced the blandness that followed: just keep this one thing. Kids who want to have a post-season, class-based system can play soccer or something. (And, in the tiny schools about which we’re apparently concerned, able bodied kids can mostly pick whatever sports they want.)
The power of nostalgia to affect logic is quite amazing.
Paul’s clarity on this subject is awesome
As a transplant, I can tell you there was nothing like the old system.
I came in here in 1998 to attend Purdue and boy howdy did I get a basketball education.
I was in the stands in Northwest Indiana when Glen Robinson was playing for Gary Roosevelt. I’ve never felt the stands shake like that in any venue. I can only imagine what things were like in the Wigwam and other iconic Hoosier venues.
In other, non-tournament games fans cheered excellent plays…by the opposing team. It was stunning to see.
Indiana lost something that made it unique. They settle for mediocrity instead. Remember when being Mr. Basketball in Indiana was noteworthy?
I disagree with like 99.999999% of things Delph would even concieve of in his little world, but he is partly correct that single class b-ball was something to preserve.
Oh well, I guess everyone’s super now.
Make that 1988. I left in 1996 and came back in 2002, to be complete precise. :-)
As a Pendleton native, I can tell you the Wigwam was about poor officating and getting your ass beaten every year by Anderson or Madison Heights. Strangely, I don’t remember feeling that was special
136-28 was a good time.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but “something different and exciting” or “transcendent” isn’t typically in the Indiana M.O.
When I am king, on this subject and on daylight savings time, your word shall be law.
I think even if they would have kept single class basketball the sport would still have declined in Indiana. I lived in Elwood (11,000 population ) in the early 70’s. It was the only thing to do on the weekend was to go see the high school basketball team play. Now we have all sorts of entertainment to distract high school students. Dance groups, band concerts, movies, cable and satelite , XBOX’s, all sorts of sporting events bleeding into each others seasons. If we would have stayed with one class basketball the final games downtown would have sold out. I suspect the regionals and sectionals would have about the same attendance as they do now. Times change and there are a lot more things to do on Friday and Saturday nights then go watch basketball games.
I forgot to add the Elwood Panthers football team went to the state finals in the 80’s (it was class football back then) and more people showed up to watch them then lived in the town of Elwood. It was a high school reunion for every class going back more then 50 years. So it really doesn’t matter what sport as long as a town backs the kids the excitement and fun is still there. Did I mention Elwood would go play in the Marion basketball sectional and get their clock cleaned every year. Throw in consolidation and high school closings ( Anderson used to have Madison Heights and Anderson and Highland high schools) that have eroded the high school Bball game.
As a Hoosier, I’m supposed to be all riled up about class basketball and nostalgic for the good old days, but I’m not.