This AP story out of Pittsburgh is disturbing on so many levels. Three police officers were killed responding to a call that started with a domestic dispute over a dog urinating in the house.
Margaret Poplawski was arguing with her son, Richard, over a dog that peed in the house. It escalated to where she was determined to kick him out, and she called the police. They responded, and Richard shot the two responding officers with a rifle.
Apparently Richard had been stockpiling weapons because “was concerned about his weapons being seized during Barack Obama’s presidency” and “believed that as a result of economic collapse, the police were no longer able to protect society.”
A third, off-duty, but in-uniform officer was killed as he responded to help the officers while on his way home. A four hour stand-off ensued, and Richard was captured.
The two main points that stand out to me from this story are that: 1) We should consider incidents like this when we second guess the tactics of officers in less tragic situations or where tragedy is on the suspect’s end. They respond to a simple domestic dispute and three police officers lose their lives as a result. That doesn’t mean officers get a free pass, but we should cut them some slack when they’re doing a job in which this is the downsided.
2) The tone of the anti-Obama rhetoric has some pretty ugly consequences. Yeah, this guy was apparently a crazy sociopath, so we can’t pin it entirely or even primarily on Glenn Beck and his ilk, but the cries of socialism, fear mongering about Obama grabbing his guns, and most importantly the apocalyptic macho “cold dead hands” posturing is taken seriously in some quarters. I’m a First Amendment nut and, therefore, don’t think any government action should be taken to restrict, regulate, or punish such speech. But I think citizens considering such rhetoric should tell the people using it exactly how full of crap they are.
Update More on the Glenn Beck connection from the ADL via Balloon Juice.
This last comment was a reference to popular right-wing conspiracy theories about Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)-constructed prisons and concentration camps for U.S. citizens. Such conspiracy theories had long been staples of the militia movement, but received a reinvigorating shot in the arm following the election of Barack Obama as president. Almost overnight, right-wing conspiracists across the country revived all of their 1990s militia conspiracy theories about the “New World Order,†planned gun confiscations, and government plots against the citizenry. Once more, wild speculations about SHTF (“s—t hits the fanâ€) and TEOTWAKI (“the end of the world as we know itâ€) scenarios became rampant.
Poplawski bought into the SHTF/TEOTWAKI conspiracy theories hook, line and sinker, even posting a link to Stormfront of a YouTube video featuring talk show host Glenn Beck talking about FEMA camps with Congressman Ron Paul. When the city of Pittsburgh got a Homeland Security grant to add surveillance cameras to protect downtown bridges, Poplawski told Stormfronters that it was “ramping up the police state.†He said, too, that he gave warnings to grocery store customers he encountered (but only if they were white) to stock up on canned goods and other long-lasting foods.
I think there’s also room to call on broadcast television not to give this kind of speech such a powerful podium. You have the first amendment right to speak on the street corner. It doesn’t mean I’m obligated to hand you my megaphone to broadcast your thoughts.
Doug:
I pretty much said likewise in my 31 March post when other people second guess police actions…or when the police are relegated to seocnd-guessing themselves…
It can amke the difference between going home OR going to the coroner…on either side of the law-enforcement fence.
B.G.
1) The thing about watchdogs is that they’ll sometime bark at something that is not a legitimate threat, but you still want them to bark because it’s worth it when the legitimate threat presents itself.
2) Most people aren’t going to open fire every time the dog barks — especially those who have dogs that bark all the time.
3) When some crazy idiot proves to be the exception, don’t blame the dog! Even if he was a little overzealous, he was just doing his job. The crazy idiot, however, could just as well have snapped from his ‘religious superstitions’ if he was religious, or his ‘lack of moral foundation’ if he was an atheist. Or he could have been motivated by a left-wing ideology, as in the case of the Weathermen. I think it’s interesting that every time something like this happens, it’s like there are a bunch of interest groups chomping at the bit to see who they can point their finger at.
4) In the current political environment, with its massive uncertainty and astonishing pace, it is often hard to discern legitimate threats before they are a reality (here the term ‘threat’ is used loosely in order to hold the metaphor).
For what it’s worth, I listen to Beck’s show occasionally and I also read what the blogs say about him. Despite a few genuine points, most of the treatment by blogs like Daily Kos, Crooks and Liars, etc. are extremely unfair treatments that are absolutely NOT grounded in reality. Most of them are just brimming with non sequitur arguments, and even the non sequitur conclusions are often drawn from words taken out of context.
All that said — Doug, I appreciate your tone and perspective on this issue.
I will say, it does help to be conscious of the lunatic fringe when sounding the alarm. I think Beck actually does a pretty good job of that on his show. I heard two great examples just the other day when he was taking calls. I wish he would have posted the transcripts.
The colonists who created the “well-ordered militias” also took guns out of the hands of people who they deemed dangerous to themselves or others.
“We should consider incidents like this when we second guess the tactics of officers in less tragic situations or where tragedy is on the suspect’s end.”
Just because paramilitary force would have been useful in a rare instance doesn’t justify its automatic application in every other instance.
So no, we shouldn’t.
I sure do long for the good old days when we simply realized the blame lies with the folks who did it instead of searching for all the reasons why a nutjob becomes a nutjob, and who is responsible for making said nutjob a nutjob.
Remember before there were underlying reasons and excuses for ANY abhorrent behavior? I think it was called personal responsibility or some such nonsense. Been so long ago, I hardly remember.
We have become a society of blame-shifting pussies with excuses for everything.
Well then, let’s approach it this way. Are there any consequences when bloviators of any political stripe choose to use faux-macho language of violence for their critiques instead of choosing calmer, more cerebral language? If so, what is the nature of their personal responsibility for those consequences?
Poplawski should be executed or placed in prison for life for his actions. I am not shifting responsibility away from him. There may, however, be additional responsibility to be assessed in this case.
There are absolutely no additional responsibilities to be assessed for this case because how do you pick who’s responsible from the various cast of players & influences? What specifically caused him to become a time-bomb?
His Dad for leaving him?
His Dad for not kicking his ass?
His Mom for calling the cops?
His Mom for threatening to kick him out?
His dog for peeing on his moms carpet?
The obedience school that failed to train the dog properly?
The TV network that aired the shows he liked?
The tv network president?
The tv personality?
The electric company that allowed the power to reach the tv transmitters?
The antenna company that allowed a nutjob to receive the programming in his home?
His high school counselor that maybe missed the signs?
The cafeteria lunch lady that hollered at him?
The girl in his class that rebuked his advances?
Just where do you decide and divide up the blame for this kid becoming a lunatic?
You can blame Glenn Beck all you want, but it’s preposterous. We, as a society cannot shelter, filter and babysit every goofball in the country, much as our government tries.
There is an excellent op-ed by NY Times columnist Charles Blow on this very subject. Pitchforks and Pistols– I can’t link on my phone but if you google his name of the article you can find it within the first couple of links.
The militia folks crack me up. During relatively civil liberties-friendly periods, they all start training for government overthrow and having paranoid delusions about black helicopters, etc.
Then when we had an administration and government that suspended habeas corpus, increased the powers of the executive, routed all of our incoming and outgoing calls for their listening and reading, these clowns found something else to do.
What a bunch of worthless turds.
Otoh, the ‘civil liberties-friendly period’ that this ‘is’ currently features an Administration that closed Gitmo for symbolic purposes, but is continuing the practice of indefinite imprisonment for detainees- just in other places; is standing steadfastly by the war on drugs; and has a Democratic Senator proposing a bill that would ‘help’ newspapers so long as they forego their 1st Amendment right to print political endorsements.
There are a lot of turds clogging the pipes right about now.
Whoops. Forgot to mention that this Administration hasn’t surrendered any of the executive powers expanded by the previous Administration. Apparently, those powers that were previously dangerous or now safely in the correct hands.
Yep, turds.
Oh, sorry. Yeah, the guy who hasn’t gotten around to stopping all the fascist behaviors that the other guy dreamed up and implemented is *equally* to blame.
Got it.
I think the argument still holds. What was it about early 2001 that suddenly made people stop fearing the black helicopters. It was simply that their guy won. No subsequent actions could have changed their point of view. They were still going to claim that their guns were a check on a government out of control. Now suddenly they think it’s out of control again.
There’s no reason to it. It’s just that now they’re not on the winning team. So it’s time to print up some fascist T-shirts (a bit larger than the ones they wore when Clinton was in office, but that has been quite a while ago). Time to break out the self-styled uniforms (a lot of camoflage, with some Nazi touches for flair). Now going to the gun range isn’t about making loud noises, smelling the gunpowder, and improving the marksmanship. It’s not about preparing to repel the Mexicans on the border, or whatever other invaders might threaten. Now it’s all about preparing for government overthrow, again.
At least until one of their guys wins again.
Mike–
Are you arguing that the militias are rationally reacting to the fact that Obama has continued many of Bush’s policies?
“14 T says:
April 7th, 2009 at 10:23 -05006
Oh, sorry. Yeah, the guy who hasn’t gotten around to stopping all the fascist behaviors that the other guy dreamed up and implemented is *equally* to blame.
Got it.”
Isn’t that what he RAN on? His whole platform was “Hope and Change”. Instead it’s become “Keep what’s there and ADD to it”.
Don’t be mad at conservatives cuz your saviour turned out to be just another politician.
Yes, it is disappointing.
But since I didn’t print up a T-shirt and march around, guns drawn, when Bush did it, then it wouldn’t be rational for me to now behave that way simply because Obama is president now.
But that seems to be the militia logic. Like the police state exponentially increased in power under Bush, but they just got the memo. Their tolerance for such policies was only equal to however many days Bush had left in office.
T..fair enough, what I resent is the so called “militia” being lumped in with the rest of us rather mundane conservatives….Just because this dirt-bag was a militia believing whackjob does not mean the rest of us Republicans, conservatives, gunowners, etc, are. It’s akin to labeling the dude in Oakland that killed 4 cops just another liberal democrat because he was black, urban, and disenfranchised by the police state of George Bush’s reppressive regime.
I’m a gunowner. I also am sympathetic to fiscal conservatism.
I understand that, while almost all the militias are rightwing, most rightwingers are not militia members and would find things like Hitler-glorification abhorrent and the black-helicopter paranoia bizarre or at least no more likely now than it was a few months ago.
God, you cons are desperate to find some way to shift the blame. You lost, your master is a failure and it’ll take years to dismantle his legacy of failures. Just because it’s not all undone in two months doesn’t give you the right to suddenly act indignant about those things.
Then again, you’re in a desperate position as your whole political party unravels; I don’t expect logic from any of you.
Damian, your mom’s calling, it’s time to clean up the basement,now get off that computer.
T- It’s a really gigantic stretch to take what I said and turn it into a ‘do you support the murderer’ question.
I was reacting SOLELY to your commentary about this being a ‘civil liberties-friendly’ time.
But I do think Obama is equally guilty as Bush on a number of things:
1. Obama’s detention policy for ‘enemy combatants’ is the same as Bush’s.
2. His warrentless wiretapping policy is the same. The question just came up this week, and the Administration followed in the Bush footsteps.
3. His foreign policy of military intervention is the same.
4. The Obama bailout strategy is the same.
5. The stimulus is the same.
6. Afghanistan sure looks like another ‘surge’.
Maybe substance doesn’t mean anything to you. In that case, GREAT! Obama’s really doing a great job with those civil liberties and human rights!
How cute, Dim’s still attacking me for his phantom beliefs about me.
I notice he and his ilk at sites like this once-decent place and Fort Wayne Propaganda don’t attack my viewpoints – they’re much too stupid to be able to do that. No, they’d rather attack me, personally, because they know they’ve got nothing else.
By the way, Dimbulb, way to echo Glenn “take your country back by shooting people” Beck with your statements, you murder-supporting scumbag. Does your little wife know you spend your day attacking people and supporting treasonous, militant, ignorant, hateful little worms like Beck, Dim? I’d wager she doesn’t. Certainly, I wouldn’t want to have any part of a life with someone like you, Dim. Maybe you should come clean to her about your habit of trolling in support of murder fantasies and making teenager-on-YouTube-level remarks about people half your age because – gasp! shock! – they don’t agree with your hatred and stupidity.
Doug, I’d suggest you clean this site up, starting with murder fantasist Dim. Either that, or shut it down. You’re just letting the inmates take over the asylum, and if you don’t act, they’ll be impossible to stop.
Oh and Mike? Grow up and adopt a political system that isn’t tailored after selfish, whiny teenage beliefs, you little brat.
Well, That was refreshing.
Wow, BF. That’s some venom. I’m not sure it goes far to show that the other side are the hatemongers and brats, tho.
Don’t take it personally Mike, he drops in on a few blogs I frequent and just sort of “freaks out” on everybody. Always kind of inadvertently helps me make my point too.
Mike– you got me, substance means nothing to me.
No, actually I was critical of all of those things that you mention, as they were being constructed by the Bush administration. Am I upset that Obama hasn’t made that cat walk backward yet? Sure. As upset as I was over eight years of watching these policies go up? Well, not really. But I’m sure my impatience will grow.
I’m sure it seems reasonable to you to find equal fault with Obama for keeping powers that Bush accumulated. I can see your point. For me, I see it more as keeping goods that you know were stolen. I just see the original thief in a more negative light. Opinions differ.
My earlier comments were specific to militias, and I did not intend to imply that you are in agreement with them on anything. I was just commenting on how, much like cicadas, their emergence seems more tied to the four or eight year calendar than to any actual events taking place around them.
Regarding the update…
Glenn Beck asked Popular Mechanics to DEBUNK the FEMA camp conspiracy theory because he wanted to set the record straight. This is what he has been saying all along and it has been taken out of context.
Here is one of the segments with the Popular Mechanics guy. It bothers me that so many are quick to judge having not watched / listened to the show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5RN-LlFvgI