Zach Wendling at In The Agora has a post entitled Morning Darkness Saving Time. He cites a study that disputes the purported energy savings from DST:
Rising energy prices and environmental concerns are driving countries to consider extending Daylight Saving Time (DST) in order to conserve energy. Beginning in 2007, the U.S. will lengthen DST by one month with the specific goal of reducing electricity consumption by 1%. In this paper we question the findings of prior DST studies, which often rely on simulation models and extrapolation rather than empirical evidence. By contrast, our research exploits a quasi-experiment*, in which parts of Australia extended DST by two months to facilitate the Sydney Olympic Games in 2000. Using detailed panel data on half-hourly electricity consumption, prices, and weather conditions, we show that the extension failed to reduce electricity demand. We further examine prior DST studies and find that the most sophisticated simulation model available in the literature significantly overstates electricity savings when it is applied to the Australian data. These results suggest that current plans and proposals to extend DST will fail to conserve energy.
This is not surprising at all.Most of the people on this blog already knew or suspected that DST doesn’t save energy or create jobs as Governor Daniels and variuos columnists state on a frquent basis.Like most politicians the Governor feels if he repeats the same thing often enough he can get people to believe him and why not it worked for President Bush in the 2004 election.
All I know is, my family sure didn’t “save” any energy this morning having to get up by 6:30 a.m. for school & work & having to have the lights blazing until after 8, whereas last week it was getting bright by 7…I despise DST with all my mind, body, & soul, though I guess that’s just the “backward Hoosier” in me…
I’m with Glenn about not having saved any money this morning. Apart from the blazing lights, I needed more coffee (ran the pot twice instead of once) and loud music than as of Friday etc.
In my humble, biased, arrogant opinion, we should be on Central Time rather than Eastern. Yes, I would have dragged a bit through today (it is Monday, after all) with DST, but having sunshine would have made a terrific difference.
I’m grateful for DST as I no longer have to explain to friends and family, that as it is summer, it’s 6 here, even though in the winter it would be 5 their time, etc.
I read an article in the South Bend Tribune Friday where Fred Upton (U.S. Representative from Michigan), who prompted the extension of daylight savings time, talked of the energy savings from the additional four weeks of DST.
He mentioned that in 1974 & 1975 when Congress extended daylight savings time during the Arab oil embargo, 100,000 barrels of oil were saved a day. What he fails to mention, and the hypocracy of this whole energy savings justification, is that the speed limit on highways was reduced at that time to 55 MPH because that was the speed where the maximum amount of gasoline was conserved. I don’t see any push nationwide to have the speed limit changed on our highways. And during the same year that daylight savings time was passed in Indiana, the speed limit was raised on many highways from 55 MPH to 60 MPH. The interstates have speed limits of 65 to 70 MPH. If we’re so concerned about energy savings, then push those speed limits backed down.
Oh, I forgot. That would disrupt commerce.
On that subject, I had over 100 people miss their appointments (showtimes) yesterday because of the switch to daylight savings time in March. That is in addition to customers that show up late everyday, or the 40,000 customers a year who are late because of daylight savings time and splitting a commerce area (Marshall & Starke Counties) into two different time zones. Thanks Judy Colita of the DOT and Governor Daniels for your expert lack of research in making your final time zone decisions. You lack of leadership will not be missed after 2008.
I like living in the Central time zone here in SW Indiana.Some complain about early sunsets in the Winter but it doesn’t bother me personally.Most people trying to make the case for Eastern time (DST) bring up some old energy saving study from the seventies.I Have no doubt that I will be forced into the Eastern time zone this Fall by the DOT.One thing I have learned throughout this debate and proceeding is that the DOT will do what Governor Daniels ask them to do.
Central time advocates in rebuttal petitions have made the Ice Miller arguments in the Joint petition and subsequent follow up documentation look foolish and exposed the misleading satements and numerous errors contained in them.All that being said I fully expect the DOT to do what the governor and some local commissioners(who have NO CLUE ABOUT ANYTHING IN THIS DEBATE) asked them to do and grant the decision reversing their previous decision to place the SW counties in the Central time zone.
In my opinion the sunrise and sunset times where I live today seemd better being 7:04am and 6:51pm(Central time) than making everything a hour later.At least I’ll be able to watch IU at 8:55pm Thursday instead of almost 10:00pm in the Eastern time zone.At least I think I read that was game time.I guess it’s a matter of opinion.
Phillip,
You’ve learned what I already knew after the time zone hearings in South Bend, that the hearings and the voice of the people meant nothing, and the governor dictated the whole process. I hope the Democrats get a candidate for governor that comes out of the gate this summer, and uses daylight savings time as part of his/her platform. This madness has got to stop. I also hope and urge others to send e-mails to their U.S. Senators (Bayh, not Lugar)and U.S. Representatives to urge them to step in and intervene in the DOT process.
I think that to start boycotting any businesses or associations (Indiana Broadcasting Association, Indiana Golf Association) who supported daylight savings time or the eastern time zone would also start making an impact. I for one have stopped watching network television, and won’t play anymore golf until this madness stops. A grocery store in our area that supported the Eastern time zone, I now refuse to shop at. AM General that makes the Humvee supported the Eastern time zone, and I refuse to do any business with them. The whole concept of hit them where it hurts until we get a new governor is the only recourse we as citizens have right now. I know there are other people doing the same thing. Let your voices be heard.
I.U. at 10 pm. Makes me want to secede from the Eastern Time Zone. But since it appears we will never get a chance to vote on it, all I.U. fans should complain to their representatives. If you don’t know how to reach them you can try Rep. Jerry Torr at h39@in.gov and Gov. Daniels at 317 232-4567. If you don’t get any response from either call your local Chamber of Commerce.
So, why did the change happen this year? Who ultimately decides this? I see people hanging blame to a wide variety of officials, and it seems to me that the decision should be eminating from one place. So, which office?
For my own part, and I suppose an attempt to become a pariah here, I love DST. I’m not a morning person anyhow, so I love additional daylight later in the day.
I have great sympathy for my friends who own bars. They tell me that DST really beat them up, because with the later daylight, people do more things outside later in to the evening. By time it’s dark out, they are closer to bedtime and therefore less inclined to head to the bar. So, with the earlier onset of DST this year, their situation stands to be even worse.
Perhaps that’s the sort of info that gives more weight to some pro-DST forces. Less drinking, more outdoors activity? Good stuff in the eyes of some who like to micromanage us into healthier lifestyles.
Doug lives geographically west of me, but time-zone wise he is east of me. In the winter, I wish I had his clock. In the summer, he wishes he had mine. Our sunrises vary by an hour or two, our sunsets vary by about six hours within our state boundaries. I think if people knew going in what a mess this would become, they would have left it alone.
We should put the whole state on Central Daylight Time, then make it year-round. It would be the same time we used to have, but since it would have the words “Daylight Saving” in it, we would save ourselves the anguish some used to feel at being ridiculed over our clocks. Then we could mock the rest of the country for their simple-minded foot-dragging for not going to “Daylight Saving” time year-round.
One place for Daylight Saving Time decisions? Oh, dear me, no. The duration of DST is determined by the US Congress. Whether to observe DST is determined by the state legislature. The location of the time zone boundaries is determined by the Secretary of Transportation. Whether to petition to be in a different time zone can be made either by a county executive or by the State (Governor or General Assembly, I believe.)
How about a move to put the entire earth on GMT, and use 24 hour clock notation?
At least you’d never again have to ask anyone:
My theory is that IN is destined to always be split by TZ,but basically observing ET,with the corners in CT. This is the best of all possible worlds,considering the alternatives. A regional solution would be a possible alternative.That is, put all of MI,IN, KY and TN( perhaps even including AL and GA) all into a perpetual ESTZ.That would in effect be creating a 5th TZ and that’s why it would never happen.And it’s doubtful these states would see a need to change TZ.
Detroit calls the time choice in MI and it’s far east in the state and that’s bad for CT.Lake Michigan is a formidable natural TZ border on the west,so splitting Michigan,except possibly in the SW corner to conform with the CTZ in NW IN,wouldnt serve MI as a whole.. Ohio extends well east and it’s doubtful a city like Cincinnati would to separted from OH time,just to accommodate Hoosiers. ‘The Mansfield line’ where ET and CT are equally divided between 75th and 90ieth meridans is well into Central Ohio,and doesn’t favor CT any more than ET for Ohio. Louiville and Cincinnati are sister cities in history as well as in time along the Ohio,so ET extends well west along the Ohio River,contiguous to IN. What ever original upset there was in OH and MI with DST seemed to have passed into history.There would be oppositon, if anything, if IN wanted CT statewide, also considerable oppostion within Indiana in eastern parts and contiguous areas of KY and MI.Also Indianapolis calls the TZ choice in Indiana,although DOT is officially in charge.What compelling reason could DOT find to put Indiana as a state into the CTZ? Only a regional, several-state solution would be feasible.There may be further tinkering with the TZ border within Indiana but that’s where it will stay for the predictable future: CT in the SW and NW corners, and ET elsewhere, with DST everywhere.
And why would any Indiana politician take up the time issue again ? Many voters are adamant in their views but there seems no political advantage for a politician to advocate one TZ over another. Within a year we could find the TZ map of Indiana almost exactly as it was before anyone even suggested re-assigning TZ,and that’s an incredible waste of effort to be passionate for 2 years and end up treading water legislatively.People not only want a certain TZ ,but they also want to force contiguous areas to go along with them, because no one wants a time boundary anywhere near.So getting assigned into TZ you wanted ends up being what you don’t want after all,because neighboring counties arent with you.! So the re-petitioning begins.
I disagree with Lou (so what’s new?). A time line mostly following state borders, but which passed through Indiana following the borders of the counties which, following state law, did not observe DST prior to 2006 and those in the SE that followed EDT would be workable.
I still find it odd that people think we should bend over backwards to fit in with (ETZ) Kentucky and Michigan, when doing so means ignoring the 20% of the state’s population located in two Central Time Zone pockets. Is Grand Rapids more important to us than Evansville? As an aside Toyota endorsed Indiana being moved entirely to Central Time.
As for Detroit calling the shots in Michigan. It may have been true in the 1950’s, but let’s look at what is happening in Detroit. Last week Detroit lost its last major hometown bank (Comerica, as in Comerica Park where the Detroit Tigers play) to Dallas, Texas. We should keep in mind that Indiana officials have pressed for the I-69 extension as part of a larger program to connect us with (Central Time) Texas and Northeast Mexico. Time zone differences are more of burden to establishing commercial relations than they are to established connections and while are economic ties to Texas are growing we should ask if they could grow faster, to our benefit, if we were in the same time zone.
Just to clarify what Doug said in comment #11, either the Governor or the legislature can petition the DOT on behalf of the state or a portion of the state. Both routes have been used in Indiana. Governor Branigan petitioned the DOT to put the entire state in the CTZ in the sixties (which resulted in the DOT putting most of the state on Eastern with the recommendation that daylight saving NOT be observed. The legislature petitioned the DOT to move the Evansville area into the ETZ in the mid 1980’s (which was denied). Petitions coming from the legislature have also occurred in Alaska and, I believe, North Dakota.
Mike Kole
The U.S. Congress passed the 1966 Uniformed Time Act in an attempt to bring some order to the observance of DST. Before this each locale decided when and how long they would be on DST which created a lot of confusion. The Act allows each state to chose to observe DST or not. The U.S. Congress determines the period of DST for the entire country. Since 1966 the length of the period has been increased twice. The last time in 2005 to be effective this year. Congress experimented with year round DST in 1974 during the oil embargo to conserve energy but the intended 2 year trial was terminated after 10 months because of wide spread objections.
A book could be written about Indiana’s struggle with the clock but I will be brief. All of Indiana is geographically located in the central zone and many of the eastern counties were among the first in the nation to observe DST in peace time. So it isn’t fair to say we are unreasonably opposed to DST.
The Interstate Commerce Commission acting on a petition from a coalition headed by the Indianapolis Chamber of Commerce transferred 43 of Indiana’s 92 counties to the eastern time zone effective July 1961.
After a law suit, a governor’s veto and 2 years later the legislature overriding the veto we settled into the arrangement where much of Indiana observed EST which is the same as year round central daylight time.
Since we started observing EDT last year, Indianapolis has the latest sunrises of any city its size in the country because we are on double daylight time. For example on March 11th sunrise for Indianapolis was 8:03 EDT – for New York City 7:15 EDT – for Chicago 7:10 CDT. This year we will have 58 days with sunrises later than 8. If we were in our rightful time zone, Central, our latest sunrise would be 7:15 CDT.
For Unioncitynative – Louisville and parts of Michigan were transferred to eastern by the same 1961 ruling that moved the 43 Indiana counties.
All I know is what I have stated numerous times and that is what ever time zone causes a person the least problem ie work commute,business travel and location of where one lives is the time zone the person will advocate most.
In SW Indiana we have been told by the Chamber of Commerce especially the Dubois county Chamber that the whole area will go on the decline by being located in the Central time zone along with Evansville and the original Central time zone counties.Now of course no commissioners,the Chamber of Commerce or Ice Miller LLP have produced in the past or in the present any evidence to back this up or that convenience of commerce is being hampered in any way to the contrary some businesses had record profits last year and are expanding. The unemployment rates for the 5 repetitioning counties is lower than the Eastern time counties they border and all in all everything is fine in the region except the disruption of schedules and family life for some.
However moving the time zone boundary again will just produce the same result for a different group of people and acomplish nothing.
Lou,
You’re right about the fact that after all the bitter debate and hard feelings,at least here in SW Indiana the time zone line will probably end up where it was before the whole mess started!Except for Perry county for now.
I still will never be convinced that a time zone has anything to do with the economic prosperity of a state or region.Is someone going to tell me that Dubois county which borders the Central time counties of Spncer,Perry and Warrick and close to one of the largest cities in the state Evansville will prosper more in one time zone over another.Excuse me if I don’t buy it!
Also if all these businesses are being hindered so bad observing Central time in the 5 counties why despite a huge effort by the Dubois county Chamber of Commerce to get businesses to support the repetition for Eastern time are less than twenty complaining and less than 10 mentioned in the Joint Petition???Seems to me with thousands of businesses located in the 5 counties there would be more of a uproar to go back to Eastern time if they were being hindered as bad as the Chamber and Ice Miller LLP state.Or could it be that the time zone makes not one bit of difference as far as the success or failure of a business.
The two big complainers about Central time are Kimball International and Jasper Engine Exchange both of which are global companies and Kimball had a record profit last year.
Lou You are bound and determined to have our house called Indiana divided. Why? Michigan, Ohio and Kentucky are the ones intersected by the natural time zone boundary not Indiana. I truly resent my state being divided so that Ohio can be unified.
It is a mistake for us to hitch our economic wagon to the worn out eastern nag while the young stallion to the west is much stronger. Indiana’s economy is much more vibrant than the other three states.
One of the many things I don’t understand about the 1961 split is why Indianapolis, the state capitol, valued its relationship with New York City more than it did with Evansville, Terre Haute, St. Louis, South Bend, Gary and Chicago. The message sent to these cities came thru loud and clear. It may be the reason Daniels is the first and maybe the last governor from the Indianapolis area.
Jim B.,
You’ve touched on something I have never understood and that’s why Indianapolis and for that matter the chamber of commere is so enammered with the East coast and with New York City?I just do not understand this.When you consider the cities of Chicago,ST.Louis and all of the states to the west of Indiana.
In the Joint Petition Ice Miller LLP lists chamber of commerce “key statistics” but in examination of the numbers it is shown that two-thirds of products are exported to other than the Eastern time zone and just less than one-half come from a point of origin other than the Eastern time zone.
This was a question the DOT posed to Ice Miller LLP in the November 14th follow up asking Ice Miller to correct non factual statements and answer a series of questions such as this.
Now the answer Ice Miller gave to this question was to ignore it or side step it however you want to say it.Central time supporters answered all of the DOT questions with factual evidence with a verifiable source listed to the information.
One of the more interesting maneuvers this law firm used when asked to supply a list of area schools with one sports program such as Boys basketball schedules and conferences as to why the Eastern time zone would cause the least scheduling conflicts Ice Miller cherry picked 5 high schools from the five counties and gave their conferences and schedules.
No surprise that using the five schools and their conferences Ice Miller listed that Eastern time would cause the least inconvenience.
However before Ice Miller turned there list in Central time supporters submitted the correct information and included each school(there are 15 school systems in the five counties) along with their conference and opponents and the opponents and home teams time zones all in nice neat easy to read tables like Ice Miller uses.Of course when the group of 15 schools,their conferences and conference opponents are taken as a whole group instead of just five as Ice Miller used it shows the least inconvenience if the five counties are left on Central time.
Many of the schools have opponents in the original Central time counties to the south.
This is the tactic Ice Miller used in most of their evidence they presented to the DOT except for several times that they provided lies or incorrect facts however you want to phrase it.
There was also the classic tactic of saying they could not “get or find information” the DOT wanted which was because if they gave the requested information to the DOT it would hurt their cause for Eastern time.Central time supporters were able to “find” the information and submit it again with a verifiable source.
What’s a shame to me is this sorry excuse for a petition this law firm submitted will probably get granted but it will have nothing to do with the evidence contained in it and more to do with the Governor!!!
Jim B.
I theoretically created a new TZ with a strip of states all on perpetual EST.As Doug pointed out, DST is a state’s perrogative,so DOT would have to get involved and they wouldn’t get involved unless other states made them see a need,and the TZ law would have to be modified .The only way PEST( perpetual eastern standard time) was ever viable was allowing 5 counties to opt out and unofficially observe EDT.So we had 3 de facto time regimes in Indiana( the smallest state in continental USA, wholly west of the Appalachians)It looks to me as an outsider to the state that the state is more unified than ever. The northern ,eastern and southern borders all coincide with the contiguous states year round.If you live near the border,then what time it is in the neighboring state is a valid issue. Indiana is small and lots of Hoosiers live near a border. TZ has always been a county by county issue,never a state issue.The negative feelings in Indiana have to do with sunrise and sunset times and the day being so lopsided as to division of day/night. I agree. I always spend some time in Indiana part of each year and it was ‘weird’ for me too last summer in Indy.But how would you see the state better unified in TZ than it is now?( without dwelling on sunrise and sunset) Any scenario to accommodate more CT makes more divisions ( unless we just ignore the contiguous states). How many people are CT ‘meridian thinkers’ I don’t know.Unless there is a statewide poll we’ll only be guessing.But polls aren’t what DOT uses to assign TZ. I think what a statewide poll would do is let everyone know what the ‘silent majority’ wants.. What questions would you ask on a statewide poll,or would we query only those in ETZ? Remember no one living in Indiana’s CTZ complains of time in any way( unless they were just moved into it).So taking any kind of poll in CT areas is not needed.
Govenor Daniels will not always be Govenor,but I think he speaks for a widely held strong feeling by business and civic organizations that PEST had to go.There would be huge oposition in Indiana to re-instating EST as any kind of solution and even if it got to debate,then the next chapter would be which counties ( as before) would be exempted,and the greater Indianapolis area would surely ask for an exemption in order to observe DST,and that would be the end of it.
The compromise of 1962 came in an atmosphere of willing compromise,allowing all counties to have what they wanted.Now the emphasis is mandating what certain counties need to be forced to conform to,so that other counties have their way,and that’s true of both sides..
There was one internet poll right after DOT made their decision to keep St Joseph and Elkhart counties together. This was in South Bend .Granted everyone who had a computer could vote as many times as they wanted wherever they lived,but still DOT ‘s decision was highly favored.
The statistics on Indiana trade which are often cited as favoring Eastern Time come from a federal government publication called the Commodity Flow Survey. It comes from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, see:
http://www.bts.gov/publications/commodity_flow_survey/2002/states/indiana/pdf/entire.pdf
I think those statistics are being misused.
The Survey is published every five years, the last one having been issued in 2004 covering the years 1997-2002. The Indiana report reaches state by state trade details on pages 42-43. The six biggest destination states (excluding our internal trade) at that time in order of value were Michigan, Ohio, Illinois, Kentucky, Texas and California (that group rather sets itself off from the rest of the pack). Something interesting happens when you divide value by tons shipped. I did this to get an idea of which destinations would be more service intensive. After all, we could be shipping tons of building stone or aggregate to Illinois, which would require less real time hand holding, than shipments of computer chips to Michigan for cars. The order of the states changes to Texas (highest ratio of value to weight), California, Michigan, Ohio, Kentucky, Illinois. (BTW, internal Indiana trade would rank first in value and far and away last in value per unit of weight.) Texas and California swamp all the other states in this regard. I suggest that the reason for this is that our highest valued exports are to Texas and California. Exports to Michigan and Ohio were obviously dominated by auto parts, a medium value export. Given that some of the survey data is approaching 10 years in age, it is obvious that our shipments of auto parts, particularly to Michigan, will have declined in relative value these last few years. I would guess exports to California and Texas are dominated by health care products, which are far more important long term to Indiana than are auto parts. Our exports to Illinois may be have a “heavier” mix of mineral products such as coal and aggregates (which would explain the Indiana results).
If we are worried about our state’s economic future as a manufacturing center I would look to align us more with California and Texas.
Proponents of Meridian Time want the daylight hours to center around 12 Noon, regardless of the sunrise and sunset consequences. If 12 Noon meant anything it terms of people’s routines, that might make sense. In fact, most people’s waking hours do not center around noon in the 21st century. In terms of the time on the clock vs. the sun, there will never be purity in Indiana unless we want to spend most of the year with our clocks agreeing with Dever Colorado and Salt Lake City, Utah.
The events of this past winter in SW Indiana sum it up best, I think. While Hoosiers’ natural instinct is to support EST year-round and to oppose “daylight saving time”, it turns out that at least according to Dave Crook’s survey and subsequent flip-flop, people don’t like the reality of our “natural” time zone (Central Standard Time) too much. What happened in SW Indiana is a microcosm, I think, of what the reaction would be statewide to CST if we ever went to it. If I were a CST proponent, I would have been very disheartened and taken aback by that development. However, if DOT moves the five SW counties them back to Eastern and next year, they have EDT, it will be the grand experiment we’ve needed to answer the question about which bad option people hate less.
So, what do we dislike less? EDT or CST? Statewide, I conjecture the answer is EDT. With Indy being the center of gravity in the state and imposition of Central Time proving very difficult and controversial even in areas contiguous to Central Time, I think the rank order of preference is developing as:
1) Perpetual CDT (EST)
2) EDT
3) CST
Just an observation: Indiana is not one big happy “house” that needs to be united on time. The fact is that we are a regional state with regional ties that matter much more than theoretical state unity. If I lived near Evansville, I’d care much more about being in synch with that city than what the time is in Indianapolis. Furthermore, no one in Valpo cares much about what time it is in Lawrenceburg, or even Indianapolis, on a day-to-day basis.
Eastern Time is not about NYC any more than Central Time is about Dallas, TX or Bismark, ND; it’s about Cincinnati, Ohio, Louisville, KY, the state of Michigan, etc.
If one looks at a map of the U.S. Time Zones vs. Meridian Time, every single one of them (except Pacific, because of, well, the Pacific Ocean) extends beyond its “natural” meridian boundary and this ‘incursion’ has increased during the 20th century as lifestyles change. Will it reverse, I don’t know, but in Indiana, the answer seems to be shaping up as “no”…for now. We can take heart that going back to EST someday is within the control of the citizens of Indiana through their legislature and governor and not in the hands of the federal government, if that’s what Hoosiers value and are willing to vote for a regime that will do it.
I agree with Gov Daniels that the smart thing was to get rid of EST as a TZ.I can tell you that it was very confusing.We’ve had this discussion before and someone will say it’s easy to figure out and ‘figure out’ is the key phrase. Time should be automatic and always predictable at any moment.There are a sizeable minority of people who have no idea whether to move the clock ahead or behind for DST. To most of us it’s just ‘logic’.This was a hindrance to business because only 5% of people being confused can affect profit substantially.
He also had no concept of TZ in Indiana and I can also understand that.Where the line is drawn is much more important than which TZ one is in( Im ignoring those who look at sunrise and sunset times)The time docket 2114 is filled with posts proving that the SW counties did well on CT and Im sure they are all accurate. But I would assume the same would be true and was true observing ET,not withstanding any broader economic trends.The docket is also filled with Hoosiers complaining about the inconvenience of having to deal in 2 TZs daily. And that’s a key word for DOT: ‘convenience of commerce’. If there is an ‘inconvenience’during the work day the cadre and employees have to deal with these inconveniences and they may overcome them and business profit may be good,but they all still have inconveniences in commuting, in arranging daily schedules with work schedules.This all part of commerce. These are the ‘peopels’posts’It’s a matter of just thinking what each person does every day and then add an hour time difference happening down the street,and see how inconvenient it all needlessly becomes.People are more compelling than statistcs.
I’m repeating myself from other previous commentary,but my insights in Indiana Time zone placement stemed from two events: The huge response to docket in Benton County not to be divided from their commercial and cultural base of Lafayette.It probably was an organized write-in campaign by ET proponents but that’s how democracy works,but we have to assume no one posted anything they didn’t believe.The second example was the unification of Elkhart and St Joseph Counties y DOT.This decision points out well DOT’s priority. There is no such thing as a unity with CT and Chicago,if in the process the area literally right across the street is cut off by a TZ line.Unity is local first.
Around Fort Wayne even I have been surprised by the vehemence of the expressions of disgust for our touch of “winter” EDT since the change this past weekend, including a few folks who were DST supporters in 2005 and brought the subject up just to tell me I had been right in my opposition to DST. I would keep an eye on Congress come early next year when they get their hands on the DOE’s “energy” (acutally electricity) use studies that were required by the DST extension law. Many in California and on the East Coast want an excuse to enact year round DST, and Speaker Pelosi is a Californian. (A glance at a map shows that Boston and San Diego are about as far east from their time meridians as Indiana cities, so what they want is, in effect, local versions of Hoosier Standard Time.) I see them as ready to latch on to any suggestion that electricity usage declines in the March and early November periods as an excuse to give us even more of this. If the coasts can push through year round DST it would give Indiana January sunrises well after 9:00am. Of course if this comes to pass it could be just the push we need to press for Central Time here.
Lou,
As far as the docket being filled with people inconvenienced by dealing with two time zones having studied the worker commuter patterns of the five counties I can tell you this that the least inconvenience is had by the five counties remaining on Central time.The only exception are NWSC Crane workers.Having said that if your a person inconvenienced at the present time this makes no difference to you personally.
When the five counties are switched to Eastern a new group of people will be up in arms because as you know no one complains until they are inconvenienced themselves.Those people will then be told the debate is over and this is the best we can hope for and it is time to move on!!
My sister and her husband were down this evening complaining about the late sunrises they are experiencing now in Sullivan county and the 10:00pm daylight they will have again this Summer which they hated last year.They also said they wouldn’t want the early sunsets in the Winter we have on Central time so go figure.Being sports fans like myself they also would like the earlier start times of Monday Night Football and IU games we get with Central time.Overall though they do not like living in one time zone Eastern and working at Crane which is on Central.The crazy world of Governor Daniels and Ex state Rep Woodruffs time zone wall continues!!!
Paul,
Nationwide year round DST might be a positive for Indiana,although I don’t see it happening.There would not be 9 am sunrises that’s for sure.There would be general petitioning of states in the western part of the TZs to move east,including Indiana. The only areas where DST would make sense in Winter is in warmer recreation areas, and that would be in parts CA, along Gulf Coast and in FL.
Phillip,
Whatever is decided will be in effect for a long time.That’s why DOT is probably being so slow in making a decision for SW Indiana.I think we agree that where the TZ line is drawn is more important than the TZ itself.I don’t have a sense where the most inconvenienced people would live, but it would be where the largest density is,and there would be a feeling of being cut-off rather than of being united..hard to meaure feelings…Only people who live there know that and they may not know themsleves yet. That’s probably why there is so much ambivalence shown by the re-petitioning..The proof has to be empirical ,but the issue is basically emotional. There probably was a logic where the line was orginally drawn 1962-2005 so I’d look at that closely. Why was the line drawn there orginaly,and how have conditions changed?
Lou,
By saying you think we agree that where the time zone line is drawn is more important than which time zone is chosen is again another EXCELLENT statement and pretty much sums up the whole ball of wax!
There are exceptions of course like myself who will not be burdened by whichever time zone is chosen but prefer Central time or others that prefer Eastern but by in large you are correct in your statement.
As I have stated whichever time zone a person prefers that person or group will assemble evidence to support their choice and say the opposing view point(time zone) makes no sense.
I still say the Governor,Chamber of Commerce,and some politicians will decide the time zone and whatever evidence is presented to support Central time will eventually be discounted and explained away and this is what I believe the DOT will say:
“While regional connections and ties are important we believe the overall convenience of commerce is best served for the five counties to be in the same time zone as the majority of the state.” Something like that anyway.
As it happens, most major population centers in the U.S. would not be vehemently opposed to year-round DST. The entire East Coast is probably game for it and maybe even Chicago. California’s been looking at it for a long time. The Pacific NW probably would hate it as would Minneapolis. With the western fringes of most time zones having small populations, could they muster enough votes to stop it?
If year-round DST were enacted, it would produce a flurry of TZ realignment that would probably be beneficial for Indiana. I guess if you like TZ debates, it would move this from a parochial Hoosier issue to a nationwide one!
Aside from year-round DST nationwide, what over development is likely to affect the status quo significantly? I don’t believe the SW counties have a case for Eastern over Central except for popular preference, if such exists. Beyond that, will the stars ever align correctly again to give momentum for either a broader TZ change statewide or repeal of DST? My hunch (and I admit it’s just a hunch) is that the majority of people are ambivalent and certainly not animated enough about it to make it a major political issue in the future. Ergo, my guess is that the current situation is here to stay.
It doesn’t take a majority to keep the issue alive, though that is less than saying that the situation will change.
My hunch is that the argument in Indiana has always been between at least three minorities, an anti-DST group, a Chicago oriented pro CT group and a retail/recreation/broadcasting oriented pro ET with DST group. I suppose that there are subflavors within this, such as a pro DST group that didn’t care about the time zone. I don’t count the anti-DST group as favoring CT or ET particularly, they usuallly pointed out that year round EST was the same as year round CDT. Larger businesses, when they had an opinion, didn’t seem to care which time zone we were in as long as they got DST, although a few, such as Toyota in Gibson County and Monoco Coach in Elkhart County openly endorsed broader or even statewide Central Time. The pro ET with DST group has always had retail business support and thus dominated the state and most of the local Chambers of Commerce. Having money and organization they always had the legislature’s ear and could push the agenda with the public until, after decades of carping, they made the majority sick of the issue (of course they then blamed on the anti-DST group for the decades of argument, even though year round standard time had always been the more popular position).
The anti-DST group has commanded enough voters to scare the politicians and swing a few races. Even Bosma allowed that it was DST that cost the Republicans the Indiana house in the last election. It isn’t necessary that anti-DST be a majority to win, just committed, vocal and large enought to vote the issue. Representative democracy is sensitive to strong interest groups and will accomodate their views as long as they do not offend the majority. The time zone border areas and close races in the ET part of the state may keep the issue alive.