I found this quote on Daylight Saving Time that I found a little amusing:
I object to being told that I am saving daylight when my reason tells me that I am doing nothing of the kind. I even object to the implication that I am wasting something valuable if I stay in bed after the sun has risen. As an admirer of moonlight I resent the bossy insistence of those who want to reduce my time for enjoying it. At the back of the Daylight Saving scheme I detect the bony, blue-fingered hand of Puritanism, eager to push people into bed earlier, and get them up earlier, to make them healthy, wealthy and wise in spite of themselves.
— Robertson Davies, The Diary of Samuel Marchbanks, 1947, XIX, Sunday
Japan, India, and China remain holdouts against Daylight Saving Time. Maybe when Gov. Daniels goes there courting jobs for Indiana, he can remind those countries what a great economic tool DST is. You know, since it actually results in additional –not less– energy consumption.
Would you prefer to revert to Standard Time?
Year round Central Daylight Time or year round Eastern Standard Time are equally acceptable to me.
Ok, I’m dragging out my old horse… “not one inch of Indiana soil…”
(for those who may have missed my repeated mentionings…the rest of it goes “lies in the Eastern Time Zone”)
I’m designing a t-shirt.
Fine print at the bottom… “and DST saves neither Daylight, nor Time”
With a large -6 on the back.
The “-6” is a very nice touch.
Gives it that sporty look.
=grin=
I’ll wear it to this summer’s Masson’s Blog Pitch-In.
Set up a stand. You’ll get rich.
Brenda – Here are some ideas I had for bumper sticker slogans. They should fit on a T-shirt.
EASTERN MORNING MADNESS
ITS THE TIME ZONE STUPID
EASTERN DAYLIGHT IS CHILD ABUSE
MID MORNING MOON
CENTRAL TIME IS PRO EDUCATION
MOTHERS AGAINST BUSING AT NIGHT
DAWN’S LATE LIGHT
CENTRAL TIME HOME AGAIN IN INDIANA
INDIANA – HOUSE DIVIDED BY TIME
DOUBLE DAYLIGHT = DOUBLE TROUBLE
ITS TIME FOR CENTRAL TIME
ITS 8 AM DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR SUN IS
Why haven’t I been invited to the Masson’s Blog Pitch-In? Please don’t tell me!
‘Cuz I’m a lazy bastard and a poor host; so I haven’t created such a thing.
Just have it at the Triple XXX …
“ITS 8 AM DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOUR SUN IS”
Oh, that’s my favorite!
Good stuff. Just took the family to dinner there last night. Excellent corned-beef hash.
I got my evening daylight back, so I’m happy about that. Of course, I’m southeast of you, Doug, so I’m an hour behind.
Maybe T. could take an unofficial survey to verify that overall people in Perry County are not complaining about being in CTZ? Is it an inconvenience for people that the contiguous area to the north an northwest is now observing EDT?
All I know is, me & my wife’s and my kids’ butts were dragging this morning, and they will be for some time. DST screws with your circadian rhythms:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071024123249.htm
And as Doug recently pointed out, it results in higher, not less, energy costs. It’s the middle of March and I want daylight at 7 a.m., not 8 p.m. Why again are we doing this…? And yes, at least in central Indiana I’d much rather go back to year-round Eastern Standard Time.
I didn’t take a survey of the inconvenience of being on a different time zone from the rest of the state. I know from my standpoint, Perry County was in a unique position previously where I could drive east to Louisville after work and have a dinner out and be on the same time. Or I could drive west to Owensboro or Evansville and have an extra hour relative to their business closing times to get things done. After the time change I lost an hour in both instances.
I did take an informal survey of patients about the early darkness vs. early light. After about 20 in a row said the morning light was useless to them and they wanted the evening light back, I quit asking. This included a few with seasonal affective disorder who are purported to benefit from the early light.
I missed the morning light a bit today, but not nearly as much as I missed the evening light previously.
I’m in the CST zone, too and love having my night light back.
As a pastor, I hate the fact that the change happens on a Sunday morning. Why not Saturday? We would have the whole weekend to adjust. I had ten people show up an hour late for church yesterday, and they didn’t stick around for the late service. That hurts attendance and giving. And this is in a part of the state that has been changing clocks forever. I’m just glad that with the spring change being the second week in March, the time change can never happen again during Holy Week or on Easter.
My mom came up this weekend from eastern Indiana. On Friday she gained an hour when she arrived at our house; but on Sunday when she left she had lost two hours. Only in Indiana;-)
They still close Sunday nights?
As expressed earlier, Indiana lies entirely from a geographic standpoint in the central time zone. The University of California-Santa Barbara study showed that we are now consuming more energy on Eastern (double)daylight savings time, then prior to observing daylight savings time before, thus all other arguments are irrelavent. The primary purpose of daylight savings time was to conserve energy, and since that requirement is being contradicted by the eastern time zone, then one conclusion can only be reached. If business is so fixated on Indiana observing daylight savings time, then it must be done in the central time zone. The entire state needs to be on one time zone, not this piece meal of one county on one time and one county on another.
For President Bush and Governor Daniels, who had the fix in on the time zone issue in Indiana even before any hearings were held
” time for honoring yourself will soon be at an end.”
Actually, David, I don’t think the Eastern time zone has anything to do with it.
The more sun you place after people get home from work, the more energy you waste. Yes, we waste more with EDT than we would with CDT, but CDT wastes more than CST.
Sun before people leave for work does not affect A/C as much as it does after work, and the after work lighting is less than after work A/C.
Saving electricity is the main reason advocates have always used to promote DST. No one has ever proved it has saved electrical energy. Most likely it is insignificant one way or the other.But it is reasonable to think that DST increases oil consumption. Henry Ford was one of the early supporters of DST. He believed the extra hour of evening sunlight would sell more cars because people would have an extra hour to go joy riding. He was probably right because the cars and roads of that era were certainly unsafe after dark. Even the modern advocates say it will increase shopping and leisure activities which we can safely assume if they are right that more gasoline will be consumed in the process.
DST, especially E-DST in Indiana is rough on drive-in theaters…in June (when it’s finally warm enough to go to the drive-in) by the time it’s dark enough for a movie, it’s tomorrow.
Those who argue for a return to EST have a reasonable argument. More precisely, those who argue that the expansion of DST into early March is awful have a reasonable argument. First, until March 20, there is more night than day. It seems silly to be shifting what we don’t yet have much of! Prior to 1986, DST started in late April. That seems a more logical point. Back in those days, DST was the exceptional (shorter) period and “standard” time was exactly that. I contend that most people would be OK with EDT if its starting and ending points were in late April and late October.
Those who argue for an expansion of Central Time year round, however, have lost decisively. Their defeat will not turn to victory extrapolated statewide, to points even further north and east where the sunsets in winter would be even earlier. While many dislike EDT, I am convinced that most view it as the lesser of two evils; the other being CST in Winter.
We had some “test” counties that hadn’t practiced CST in decades go to it, only to petition to return to Eastern Time. There was no federal or even state compulsion to do so. The return to Eastern Time was the locally driven, informed decision by the elected officials in the counties. One may argue about the Chambers of Commerce and a rigged process ad nausium, but the fact is that the petitions to return to Eastern were a LOCAL decision by locally elected officials–not Gov. Daniels and not even the devil himself, George Bush. One can argue that these locally elected officials are not responsive to the will of the people, but then you’d have to talk to David Crooks. His stand could only be described as outspoken and adamantly pro-Central. Suddenly, his constituency got what he wished for and his 180 on the matter was dizzying. The oft-quoted pro-Central pol from SW Indiana suddenly killed his own referendum legislation and dropped the matter entirely on the basis of (his survey of) popular opinion!
By the way, I want to know if any of the CT proponents here are also anti-DST purists. That is, would any of you find the world a much better place under year-round CST, all things being equal? Just curious.
Steve,
In answer to your last question, I think that most central time zone supporters would be happy with a compromise of EST year round
(or properly put EST/CDT year round) as it was for 35 years. Year round CST would swing the clock too far in the other direction in the summer, and again be energy inefficient.
In response to counties petitioning to return to Eastern Standard time/Eastern daylight time from Central Standard time/Central daylight time, those decisions were driven by big business and not by the majority of people. I know you’ve sighted the survey that David Crooks had a response to, but it is interesting that 1. hoosiersforcentraltime.com had a poll taken (administered by Zogby) in 2005 and found that
in every part of the state that central time was the winner even taking into account the standard deviation. 2. that Pulaski County petitioned for a return to Eastern time only after the petitions of neighboring counties was denied. 3. that those five counties in SW Indiana were returned to Eastern time only because of the wishes of big business and not the wishes of the people. In fact, one of the county commissioners in one of those counties changed his vote from “against” to “for” the petition under extreme pressure. The arguments presented by Ice Miller (a law firm located in Indianapolis and used by Governor Daniels before) for the switch of these counties was disproved by the citizens of SW indiana. Don’t you find it unusual that these five SW counties would hire an Indianapolis law firm to represent their county’s wishes. And if it was a simple switch by the county executives at the urging of the majority of the public, why did these counties have to hire a law firm to complete their switch ? It should have been an easy process, or so David Crooks survey would lead you to believe. I think its safe to say that this survey is at best highly questionable. I have read the DOT site on this process, and I didn’t see too many testimonies from people supporting it. I have also been in contact with many citizens fom SW Indiana, who are very upset with the whole outcome.
I meet David Crooks back in 2005 when he was pro-central time. I know that something has happened to change his mind, and I know its not that the majority of the people wanted it that way. When he tried to pass a bill for a time zone referendum, which I think is a excellent idea, the Republicans wouldn’t let it out of the state senate even if it got out of the house. He suddenly killed his own legislation, not because of the will of the people, but because of political pressure. And explain why he would drop a state wide referendum that pertains to the whole state, based on what his constituents said in a survey. That makes no sense, and my sources down state told me what happened. Governor Daniels was even asked by someone when I met the governor in person why they don’t have a state wide referendum, and his response was “I don’t see the purpose of having a state referendum, because your never going to get Lake County (near Chicago) to move to the eastern time zone. I think that was awfully presumptious of the governor to think that. Let’s put it to the test, and have a state wide referendum. I’ll bet I know what the outcome will be? As the saying goes, Eastern time supporters, put your money where your mouth is.
Given the fact that David Crooks is not running for re-election, one can only conclude that some deal was made. Now I know you going to say nothing like that ever happened. I can only tell you to go down to the state house sometime and follow an issue that your are passionate about. Follow it very closely, and take detailed notes. Your eyes will soon be awakened to the truth. The will of the people had nothing to do with the passage of daylight savings time. The main driving force was the Indiana Broadcasting Association and the Indiana Golf Association, with assistance from the Indiana Chamber of Commerce. For the Indiana Chamber of Commerce to use a State of California energy study (that was for California and not to be confused with this latest study), and apply it to Indiana is like studying a drug in vitro (i.e. in a test tube) for its effects and then giving it to a human to get the same effects. Its idiotic. California is located in a different location in its time zone (i.e. in the central part of the Pacific time zone) versus Indiana which is not even geographically located in the Eastern time zone.
Now in reference to your argument that Governor Daniels had nothing to do with it, I present exhibit A. Testimony from one of my collegues who meet with Governor Daniels who told him the whole time zone issue was decided even before the hearings were held. B. That the State Senator from Gary had voted No in committee to daylight savings time, but voted Yes on the floor after receiving funding for the Gary airport improvements. C. That no time zone hearings were held in the majority of the counties in 2005. D. That counties that wanted to switch to Central time were not allowed to do so even if the people of that county wanted it. Governor Daniels violated Ind. Code 1-1-8.1-3, which states
Sec. 3. The state supports the county executive of any county that seeks to change the time zone in which the county is located under the procedures established by federal law.
Plain and simple, Governor Daniels broke the law.
As previously mentioned, I spoke in person to Governor Daniels a couple of weeks ago and asked him how he could justify breaking a basic trading area (i.e. Starke, Marshall and St. Joseph Counties) apart, and he responded by saying that was a federal decision, but wait a minute. Read the law that
you signed, and if the law was followed as written, alot of counties that were denied the move to central time, were victims of Governor Daniels breaking his own law.
If you think that
“while many dislike EDT, I am convinced that most view it as the lesser of two evils; the other being CST in Winter.”
I think you are sorely mistaken. First, early morning sun in winter (as you would see with CST) is healthier from a mental standpoint, as Dr. David Avery’s studies showed that the primary cause of seasonal affective disorder is morning darkness. Second, that school childern would be safer in the morning in the winter as a result of earlier sunlight. There have been at least three school children deaths as a result of observing Eastern daylight savings time. Their have been countless school delays this year as a result of fog,avoidance of flood waters, and other weather conditions that would have been minimized on central time.
Third, your circadian rhythms do not change
when you switch to daylight savings time (let alone double daylight savings time, which by Indiana’s geographic location in the central time zone , it would be defined as). Your body does not treat daylight savings time as jet lag (as some would like to lead you to believe). If you don’t believe this, then cite me a study to show this effect. I can cite you a study to substantiate my claim. As a result of your body being out of sync, your body fights going to sleep while its still light outside in the summer. Just ask any mother trying to put her children to bed at 9 PM at night, and the curtain idea doesn’t work because your body (circadian rhythms) doesn’t want to wind down. One argument made at the daylight savings time hearings (i.e. for EDT) was improving the quality of life. By it being lighter out later at night your normal patterns of eating, sleeping,etc. are disrupted. You have a tendency to stay outside later, eat later and then go to sleep. This is a recipe for an increase in the rate of obesity (i.e. go to bed right after you eat). The recent Obesity studies reinforce this claim, as Indiana ranks #9 in rate of obesity. Our surrounding neighbors from Ohio, Michigan, and Kentucky can do no better than #15 in rank of obesity. Our neighbor to the west, Illinois, ranks #25. Thats quite a jump, and would add fuel to the argument that “early to bed ,early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and wise.” It is also interesting that the fast food restaurants (not the sit down restaurants)
we’re for eastern daylight savings time. I confirmed this with the president of the Indiana Restaurant and Hospitality Association. That’s one reason why they now advertise now open late.That’s why everytime I see one of Governor Daniels advertisements for In Shape Indiana, I think what a hypocrite, because he sets up an environment that is destined for failure. By the way, the sit down restaurants have been significantly hurt by EDT.
Now as to your reference of CST in the winter, the earliest darkness on CST is 4:47 PM. From a driving standpoint, I would rather it be light out in the early morning to burn off the fog, avoid any black ice, and give the road crews a chance to treat the roads before the morning commute. If your coming home in the dark, the roads have already been treated, and school children are already home from school long before 4:47 PM. The argument about extracurricular activities and school children safety doesn’t hold water because there is a much smaller number that participates in these activites (as opposed to all school children in the morning), and many of these kids are older, more responsible and and even some are picked up by their parents. And the argument about having some sunlight outside to do things after work, come now. What are you going to do outside when it 20-30 degrees and there is six inches of snow on the ground. Not much, and the extra hour (dusk at 5:47PM) doesn’t give you much time if you get off work at 5:00PM and have a 20-30 minute commute. Winter is bad no matter how you allocate the sunlight.
I attended all three daylight savings time hearings in 2005, and the time zone hearing in Northern Indiana. I am well aware as to what transpired at these hearings. I have researched the issue extensively, talked to many sources including Governor Daniels, State Senators and Representatives, and can substantiate my claims. I have many different studies to substantiate other arguments that I’ve cited. If you think government officials represent the wishes of the people, take a look at the daylight savings time debacle at hoosiersforcentraltime.com and get enlightened.
By the way, WSBT-TV in northern Indiana conducted a survey about whether people liked EDT, and 79% responded they didn’t like EDT.
The fact that the University of California-Santa Barbara study clearly shows Indiana is using more energy on EDT in conjunction with the energy crisis presenting itself, either Indiana has to repeal Eastern daylight savings time, or move the entire state to central time zone.
May I add an out-of-state-observation? No one expects to fly to Indianapolis and have a time change in 80 miles,and still be the state. I would say the number one reason people choose ET is that it is seen as as unifying the state.Who wants to live in CTZ? Those who feel united culturally with a larger area,such as NW Indiana.I lived in Chicago for a time and the Chicago metropolitan area was generally identified as far east as the Dunes State Park,which was a favorite Chicago playground. South Bend was where “Indiana” started. I don’t know much about SW Indiana,but Evansville does see themselves as an area connected to a different culture and economics than the rest of the state at large,much as the NW does,and they wear CT as a badge of honor and independence.
The handful of people I knows personally in Indiana all live in the metropolitan Indianapolis area,and a typical comment from them used to be : ‘Those damn CT people just won’t quit til they have the state divided again’.But yes, they also complain about the late sunsets,and don’t like them one bit.So I it seems all very illogical.
I would guess EST has no chance of returning to Indiana because it was so confusing from the outside looking in. It would be popular however,because people look at EST as having worked for 35 years.But people adjust to time formats,whatever they are ,and eventually see any new change as disruptive.Everyone always knows what time it is at home,so that’s what becomes normal.
The natural time zone for Indiana would be CST/CDT but that would also be true for all of Michigan, W. Ohio, KY,TN and GA. .Since TZ assignment is a federal matter ,does anyone really see USDOT realigning all the above areas into CT,or picking out Indiana from the others for special assignment into CTZ? Doesn’t USDOT seek to resolve conflict, not stir it up? I think there is no way a multi-state realignment will happen ,and Indiana is stuck with what I truly think most people think is the best solution,while at the same time not really liking the adjustment imposed on them.Those who lay out the CT argument for Indiana do it very well,and it’s hard to dispute the facts of their case,but implementation will always be beyond the hazy brick wall of others’ agenda
I read Indiana newspapers regularly and have read and reread the USDOT various dockets since 2005,so I am aware of many points of view people put down for the record.
Lou, do not think for a minute that the”border war” is over. Most people in western St. Joe County see themselves more aligned with the west than the east. Once the power truly shifts in that county, and it is starting, St. Joe County will be in the central timezone. Remember folks we are talking about a county not the city of South Bend. Current county politics places east versus west with SB in the middle. More later.
Steve,
As one who grew up in the EST time zone of Indiana; and has now lived in the CST/CDT time zone for sixteen years, I would vote for all of Indiana to be on the EST zone. I don’t like messing with the clocks.
I am glad that DST was shifted to the second week in March through the first week in November. This shift makes the most sense as the sun is still up well before my son catches the bus at 7:20 am; and now the sun doesn’t set until after 7:00 pm; which is great for an evening/night owl like me! Waiting until the first week in April for the time change was like waterboarding for me;-)
According to the U.s. Naval Observatory, there is no way the sun is up in March on EDT long before 7:20 AM. Dawn (earliest light) doesn’t occur until 7:30, and sunrise doesn’t occur until almost 8:00.
Some time ago Doug wrote that personal preferences and circumstances determine where someone stands on this issue. None of us can have our own personal choice of which time we want to observe. For this reason it should be decided by popular vote. Lou, the will of the people has had absolutely nothing to do with Indiana’s time. Why some in the southwestern counties wanted to return to eastern was they didn’t like living on a time zone boundary and they thought they would go back to 2005 time. Thank goodness there are only 3 time zone boundary lines on the U.S. mainland. And why any Hoosier would want one to needlessly intersect Indiana is beyond me. The only time that would align Indiana with the rest of the nation is CST/CDT. I could accept the people in their wisdom choosing EST/EDT but for the Indiana Chamber of Commerce in concert with USDOT imposing their preference on us is big brother at best and outright tyranny at the worse.
Below is an article I submitted on the last DST thread. To my surprise the first paragraph appeared in last Sunday’s Star. Eastern Daylight Time was sold as a panacea that would cure most of our ills. It has turned out to be little more than snake oil. In case you missed it the first time–
Dubious Distinction
March 9, 2008, we advanced our clocks one hour and for the third year in a row most morning commuters had to do so in the dark – just when they were getting a glimpse of daylight at the end of the road. Indianapolis has the latest sunrises of any major city in the country because Eastern Daylight Time amounts to double daylight time for our geographic location (86 degrees W. Longitude). It could be worse. Hoosiers living in Terre Haute and now Vincennes have the latest summer sunrises of any place in America. It hasn’t always been so. On March 9, 2005, Indianapolis’s sunrise was at 7:05 EST but this year it will occur at 8:05 EDT. By comparison, the sun will rise in New York City at 7:17 EDT, in Chicago at 7:12 CDT, and Los Angeles at 7:11 PDT. It is readily apparent our clocks were better aligned with the rest of the nation’s clocks before we started to observe Eastern Daylight Time. These abnormally late sunrises haven’t made our winters longer. It just seems so.
Hoosiers will spend 2,400,000 hours this year resetting clocks. Is it really worth this effort to be on the same time as Bangor, Maine? Has double daylight time lived up to what was promised? We were told it would end the confusion about Indiana time but now most people are confused about whether to advance their clocks or to set them back an hour. Pity those that fail to do either. We were told it would save energy but if it has it would be the first time double daylight savings has ever done so. We were told it would lower the crime rate but now Marion County has a crime wave of historical proportions. We were told it would be good for business but now we are an extra hour removed from the center of the nation’s market place. We were told it would be good for the economy but now lawmakers are trying to figure out how to raise taxes because of dwindling revenue. We were told it would place more Hoosiers on the same time but before 2006 Ft. Wayne, Indianapolis, Evansville, Gary and Chicago clocks were set to the same time most of the year and now there is always an hour difference between the Hoosiers in the eastern zone and the Hoosiers in the central zone. We were told it would make evening driving safer but we weren’t told that driving in the darker mornings would be more hazardous. We were told that there would be more daylight for evening walks but we weren’t told that there would be less daylight for morning jogs.
We, the people of Indiana, have not been treated fairly. An unnatural clock has been imposed on us without our consent. No candidate for a state office campaigned to have Indiana divided by a time zone boundary but the federal government, acting on the request of a private lobbying organization, did so in 1961. No candidate for state office campaigned for Eastern Daylight Time specifically. Candidate Daniels campaigned for generic daylight savings but many of us believed he preferred Central Daylight Time. Lawmakers had to vote not knowing if they were voting for Eastern or Central daylight. The measure failed to pass twice but was resurrected again and passed on the third vote when a representative reneged on a promise he had made to his constituents. A matter such as this that affects each of us in very personal ways should be decided not by the whims of special interests but by the people at the ballot box after a vigorous and open public debate.
One week in to this DST and many people are saying they don’t like these late sunrises. It makes it feel like Dec. and Jan. all over again!
Arizona and Hawaii don’t change their clocks and there by not having all these problems. Indiana should rescind DST and be like those states again.
Perry County, in my opinion has enjoyed being in the Central timezone since the change and hope neighboring counties would follow them.
“DST, especially E-DST in Indiana is rough on drive-in theaters…in June (when it’s finally warm enough to go to the drive-in) by the time it’s dark enough for a movie, it’s tomorrow.”
It’s also rough on all the Indiana fat asses who feel like they should get out and use that extra evening daylight to get some exercise.
I say, “feel guilty” that is.