Kelly Soderlund, writing for the Fort Wayne Journal Gazette, has an article entitled “Daylight time to darken October school days.” She begins:
It’s 6:35 a.m. on Sept. 25, and there isn’t a hint of sunlight in Fort Wayne. A light drizzle sprinkles down on car windows, and a mist of fog hovers close to the ground, masking the signs leading cars to the Coldwater Road entrance to Interstate 69.
Farther west on U.S. 30 toward Columbia City, the fog thickens, making it almost impossible to see landmarks on both sides of the road. A stoplight at the border of Allen and Whitley counties is surrounded by a red halo, appearing blurry to drivers.
Forty minutes earlier, 15 area school districts made the call to delay the opening of school by two hours: The fog is too thick for bus drivers to be on the road, for students to be standing on the side of hazy roads and for inexperienced teen drivers to be making their way to school.
She goes on to note that sunrise won’t occur until 7:31 a.m. Many superintendents predict having to delay school more days than in years past, especially in October, because of Daylight Saving Time and the resulting lost hour of daylight in the morning. The delays are seen to be less of a problem in urban areas and more of a problem in rural areas. If schools begin using a lot of three-hour delays, they may face fines from the Indiana Department of Education.
The problem of darkness of DST-induced darkness in the fall and spring will be compounded in 2007 when DST is extended by a month.
“I’ve always been opposed to any plan that would put kids in the dark for a longer period of time waiting for buses. That’s a safety issue, and I’m opposed to anything that puts kids in situations where their safety is a concern,†Northwest Allen County Schools Superintendent Steve Yager said. “We lobbied against the change, and if it comes up again, we will lobby to put kids on buses closer to daylight.â€
St. Joseph County Councilman Mark Catanzarite made a strong submission to the USDOT Time Zone docket pointing out the dangers to school children arising out of the extra hour of darkness in the mornings. In making its determination, the Department of Transportation was mindful of this concern, but at the end of the day, the USDOT’s charge is the “convenience of commerce,” not the safety of our children, and so the argument did not carry the day.
Apparently this a child has already been hit in Hamilton Township according to a post by Braden Robinson.On the DOT docket a group of Dubois county school bus drivers submitted their wishes to remain on Central time because of the very reason of too little light early in the morning.
I would urge those in Southern Indiana to review the details of the Mark Catanzarite DOT post. If I was in your position I would contact all the local school systems in the area effected and ask for their help. While I have to agree with Doug’s assessment of the DOT and how they reviewed the Catanzarite submission the idea that school delays and outright cancellation does not effect the “convenience of commerance” is hogwash. Let the DOT try and explain that to parents who both work and are faced with the sudden need for someone to sit with their children because school has been called off. Also, after so many cancellations, days need to be made up. More money spent keeping schools open.
I half wonder if the reporter on this story started her research on this blog.
Phillip,
There are probably a lot of “Hamilton Townships” in Indiana, and while the story I cited did have that as its byline, it might have been more helpful if I had identified the Muncie area as the site of the bus stop accident.
So that people don’t have to hunt it up, here is the NewsLink Indiana story I quoted and cited.
Paul,
I hope not. I hope many adult voters are aware of the dark conditions in which their children are having to wait for the school bus.
I will note that another thing that can mitigate the problem would be to have more school bus routes. Kids often have to stand out at the bus stop well in advance of the time they have to be at school because the bus route has many stops. Another factor is that racial integration can leave the bus with a long way to travel to the school even after it has made all its stops. I personally experienced both of these factors when attending public school in Little Rock, Arkansas. Kids from mostly white, affluent suburbs in west Little Rock would get bussed to “inner-city” schools. (Of course, the children of really affluent parents went to private schools. Pulaski Academy in Little Rock was a full K-12 private school with hundreds of students in 1985. Two were black.)
I hate to give ammunition to anti-integrationists, but it is a simple fact that busing kids farther from their homes, for whatever reason, is going to push pick-up times earlier and drop-off times later. Add to that a tight budget constraining the number of bus routes you can have and the problem gets worse.
Nobody wants their property taxes to go up, so there’s unlikely to be any money available to increase the number of routes.
Add political gamesmanship with the civil clock and you end up with the status quo.
Once enough kids have been creamed by early-morning drivers who can’t see the kids who are, to our utter surprise, running and jumping around at the bus stop and sometimes straying into the street, and eventually maybe something will give.
The fiscal conservatives will hold the line on property taxes. The racists and snobs who want our society to remain ethnically and socioeconomically stratified can be expected to try and chip away at integrated busing. (Which may already be dead in Indiana for all I know.)
That leaves the Governor and his DST gambit, which passed by one vote in the General Assembly. Where will the dam crack?
I remember a comment by a USDOT spokesperson somewhere in the last round of hearings wondering why only Indiana had dark mornings with kids waiting in peril for buses.The first step would be to get historical statistics from areas with longstanding EDT with similar sunrise times,such as contiguous Michigan and Kentucky.
I think USDOT would rule again that busing routes and school starting times aren’t in their domain.
I’m currently in the Lehigh Valley of eastern Pennsylvania (41N , 75E ), on EDT of course, and the mornings are dark here now when the busses go out to start their runs.
For those interested in the exact view the DOT had, here is a link to the January 2006 “Final” rule:
http://dms.dot.gov/search/document.cfm?documentid=382329&docketid=22114
Pages 25-28 deal with the “Safety of the Children” issue. Basically the DOT said,”safety is the number one priority of the Department and we are committed to improving safety of school children”. No one had provided us with any evidence that Eastern Time increases the safety risks. They went on to discuss a Congressional Research Service Order from September 1975. I felt then, and still do now, that the DOT took a pass on the issue.
Correct me if I am not wrapping my brain around this DST concept properly but…
Being on Eastern Time in the Fort Wayne area you Sprung Forward last Spring one hour. When you Fall Back in October you are right back to where you have always been prior to this DST issue in the first place. I don’t get the problem???
I’ll be interested in seeing the articles and comments in December, when we are off DST and back to standard time, to see if there is complaint about sending kids to school in dark mornings.
Can someone explain to me how dark mornings in October are somehow different and worse than dark mornings in December, January, and February, when there can be ice and snow on the ground?
I think it’s primarily a compounding of the problem. Instead of dealing with these problems for 3 months, you’re dealing with them for 5 or 6 months.
Pre-dawn fog is a major problem in October and March in this part of the midwest, making those months bad times to be on EDT. An article cited in the Catanzarite submission (at page 30, Westcott) details many of the issues. Beginning in 2007 we will observe DST for all of October and most of March.
Geesh…do your kids go to bed when they want or when you tell them to?
Do they got to school when they want or when you tell them to based on the school rules?
This is all another example of parents need to parent!!
What do you all do on days school is out for too much snow? You manage, right? You figure it out.
If your kids are so darn important that you’d use valuable time using them in this never ending DST debate then they are important enough to spend an extra hour or so with to wait for the fog to lift.
Its school, not a babysitter. Kids will go to sleep and wake based on whatever sleep schedule you put them on.
Its not brain surgery folks. Its time.
Which leads us back to the question of why it had to be changed in the first place. Our vaunted business leaders kept missing appointments, we’ve been told, because they couldn’t figure it out.
So, since we make adjustments for 5 or 6 snow delay days a year, its no big deal to handle 3 or 4 more fog delay days a year? It reminds me of what Illinois Sen. E. Dirksen is supposed to have said about the federal budget, “A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon, you’re talking real money”.
This is real time. We run a small office, and it is a big deal every time our secretary has to come in late due to school delays. (Never mind how tired she comes in because major sporting events run “late” on television.) We are all making these “little” adjustments for the sake of these great businessmen who supposedly can’t tell time, but whom we suspect just really want to hit the links for an extra nine holes.
Typical hoosier response…if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. That ranks right up there with ‘I just don’t wanna fiddle with my clocks’ that one eloquent hoosier said on a SW Indiana news report many moons ago. (eyes rolling)
When you had BIG businesses saying they don’t want to come to Indiana because we are behind
the times, no pun intended, and not observing DST, that is a problem.
When you have companies who are currently in Indiana saying they regret coming here because they lose money each year due to Indiana not being consistent with the rest of the civilized world, that is a problem.
Sounds like it was broke, so it needed fixing.
Now, I can tell you the SW Indiana time zone debaucle is, at the very least, a pain in the wrist. But, hopefully it will get resolved quite soon, and they’ll be in the same time zone as the rest of Indiana. (Remembering our NW IN friends who obviously need to stay with Chicago)
When I fiddle with my alarm clock each night before bed I dream about this:
SW Indiana gets back on Eastern time where they should have stayed in the first place, then the remaining counties down there that never were on Eastern should wise up and petition for a change as well. Voila! The majority of the state is on the same time, observing DST like the rest of the states around us. We learn to cope, there’s consistency and we move forward to some real issues.
Like I said, its not brain surgery. It is time. Here’s hoping Falling Back isn’t too painful.
Paul, maybe you need to talk to the school about their criteria for a fog delay. Is it possible maybe they are a little too quick to delay? If you feel the safety of a school bus or more full of children is a fair trade off for a little inconvenience on your part then you should speak up. I’m all for delaying school if its necessary. I’m also in favor of being flexible with my employees when things like this come up. Its called life. I’d rather my secretary be a little late a couple times than out for months because of a death or injury to her child. She is a parent first.
bp,
The other 5 counties in southwest Indiana did petition for Eastern time back in 1985 with the support of the Indiana legislature and the DOT denied the petitions.Voila!!Please educate yourself on the subjest of time in Indiana.
Your right it isn`t brain surgery to figure out we in southwest Indiana are one hour behind most of the state.While you may be a Eastern time fan many residents of southwest Indiana are not.
Paul,consider the fact that bp is a Woodruff supporter and obviously a Governor Mitch Daniels supporter as far as Woodruff bp will be very unhappy early in the evening on November 7 when it becomes apparent Mr.Woodruff will lose big time!
bp,if the Governor had kept his promise when he ran saying Central time would be best for Indiana he should have made that recomendation to the DOT which stated they would have been open to such a request as far as studying the situation but he did not.
Since we already had two enclaves of counties on Central time in the Southwest and Northwest part of the state this would have been the best way to go but he did nothing so we now have a mess.
BP-
Since I favor statewide Central Time why should I put out effort to make EDT more livable? It is far more fun to try to change the time zone.
Paul,
Same reason DST advocates tried for 30 years to make Standard Time liveable without trying again and again and again and again to put Indiana on Daylight Time.
Err, wait.
The perfect world and longitude lines would logically put the state on Central, yes. I’m in favor of getting as many of us on the same time zone as possible. Yah, I guess I lean toward Eastern but in the end, I don’t really give a rats which one it is. I’ll fiddle with my clocks accordingly. I’m flexible.
To clarify, the counties going back to Eastern I was referring to are the ones that just switched this year to Central. Thanks, I’m pretty clear on this time issue. Now, check your spelling and grammar please.
FWIW,I was a mere child in ’85 going to bed when Mommy and Daddy told me to, so (playing democrat here) don’t hold me responsible for what happened when I wasn’t interested in politics. A lot has changed in 21 years in SW IN.
Again, relax folks, once we get Knox et all back to where they were, and the other counties make a good case to FEDDOT to get aligned with the majority of the state, then we can discuss central for all or eastern for all but the chicago burbs. Painful process yes, but in the long run, its gonna be ok. Have faith. Be patient.
Yep, I think that Woodruff guy’s alright. I think the man’s got some balls. You act like supporting him is a bad thing..hmph. It scares me to death that the dems in his district might actually put that other guy in office just because he’s a democrat. He’s obviously not a history teacher or he’d see that its not the past two years that have contributed to this state in the mess that it is. It started way before that. But, Granpa always told me, those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.
With regard to the Guv, don’t assume what I have not confirmed. You know, I’m a free thinking American and don’t subscribe to an all or nothing attitude. I punch many buttons on election day, not just one.
Have a pleasant day.
bp-
A lot has happened in the LAST TEN YEARS and the biggest thing that has happened is Toyota. They want the surrounding counties on Central Time and they are a big reason other companies are starting to come to Indiana. If you are happy with what time you have then great but all ties in Knox County link to the south and the west not to the north and the east. We would rather have prosperity then time coordination with are state capital.
bp,since you stated the rest of the counties down there that never have been on Eastern should wise up and petition for a change I thought you should be informed that they had already tried in 1985 and were turned down by the DOT no matter how old you were or what you were doing at the time.So evidently you do not have a clear grasp of the time issue or you would have known this.
As far as spelling and grammar I`m sure I made some mistakes or hit the wrong key sometimes as I`m sure you did when spelling debacle DEBAUCLE in a earlier post which makes me no diffrence since I understood what you were saying regardless of spelling.Everyone makes mistakes.
I will conceed this to you it can be a problem for some in southwest Indiana being a hour behind the rest of the state.I can also respect the opinion of someone that is at least from a county that was moved to Central time last January not agreeing with that decision. I have always had a problem with people from Eastern time counties telling me or my county we needed to change time zones to make it less of a burden for them when it would effect tax payers and citizens of my county in a negative way.
Here we go again. Some are trying to frame the issue as being about Daylight Saving Time. DST has never really been an issue in Indiana. It was one of the few states in the 1930’s to observe advance time before it was fashionable. Eastern Standard Time is the same as Central Daylight and we in effect have been on daylight time all year since we are geographically in the Central zone. I am for CDT but I think EDT is bad for Indiana. 4:20 AM Central Standard Time sunrises in June don’t make anymore sense to me than 8:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time sunrises in October do. By making the issue DST it is easier to portray the opponents as reactionary obstructionists. The issue is time zones and always has been. I have yet to see a submission to the Docket specifically requesting Eastern Daylight Time.
Sunrise this morning was 6:56 EDT New York City, Chicago 6:52 CDT, Indianapolis 7:45 EDT, and Loogootee (Phillip) 6:49 CDT. As you can see from this Loogootee is more in sync with New York City and Chicago than Indianapolis is.
Why should we have to put up with the late sunrises? Very few have benefited by EDT. We were told it would end the time confusion in Indiana. Now the state is more divided than ever. Last year all clocks in the state were set to the same time most of the year. This year there is an hour difference. We were told it would reduce crime. The murder rate in Indianapolis is on a pace to set an all time high. We were told it would conserve energy. My electric bill is higher this year than last. We were told we could play more golf. I am sure if more rounds were played this year we would have heard about it by now. We were told it would help the economy. Any improvement in the economy is more a result of the national economy rising than EDT. The governor traveled west not east searching for jobs. We were told we would have more sunlight. Do you think daylight savings time is causing global warming?
Just a few thoughts before I fiddle with my alarm clock.
Phillip: Hey, you caught my deliberate error. I thought you would. In fact, I was banking on it. :-) You are right. Very, very right!! Everyone makes mistakes. Garsh, Phillip, I forgive ya. That’s the kind of person I am. Should we be booted from this blog because of our errors? Nah, you do a pretty good job of commenting around here and so far, I’m doing ok at keeping this thread alive. (tee-hee) I am getting bored though.
Oh, with regard to you “respect[ing] the opinion of someone that is at least from a county that was moved to Central time last January not agreeing with that decision.” You assume I’m not from one of those counties? Again, you assume something I have never confirmed. It doesn’t matter where I’m from, where I lived in the past, or where I live now. I am an American and my opinion should be respected simply because I have the freedom to express it. Just like you.
Tim–I’m not sure on this, but are ALL ties in Knox County to the south and west?? Seems there are a bunch of people that have heard of a place called Terre Haute and make the commute daily. Last time my friends flew to…oh, where was that?? Oh yah, anywhere, they went from that big city called Indianapolis. Of course, they left after they watched their ‘local’ news out of Terre Haute. Now, mind you I’m not saying ALL ties are to TH, but there is a valid point there.
Now, in terms of the neighbors to the west of Knox County. Oh yes, that would be Lawrenceville, IL. A quaint little town, but hardly an economic center to be concerned with when trying to decide issues of importance to our state. They’ll go to the Walmart no matter what the time. They have for a long time. Notice I didn’t say always. (wink)
Nighty nite!
Folks, I recommend we stop feeding the troll. Let Mr. British Petroleum or whatever find his entertainment or Powerline or Little Green Footballs.
Isn’t it about time for USDOT to post a scenario on Docket for what’s going to happen with
re-petitioning?
If they were interested in being kind to the Governor, they’d probably wait until after the November election. But that’s just my conspiratorial side thinking.
Darned uncooperative of the DOT. Don’t they know they were supposed to move those SW counties back to ET for this winter with plenty of time for a third petition returning the counties to CT for next summer?
Doug,you may be right about that in regard to the upcoming election.I thought the DOT would announce a move back to Eastern for our counties by now but I guess not.I know my relatives who work at Crane sure thought this would be settled by the end of DST October 29 so their home and work clocks would read the same.
Oh well the DOT has until January 1st as stated by the Ice Miller petition to get this done.Many of the folks on the Crane base thought it would be done by the end of DST on October 29.
I do not know how it is in other parts of the state in regard to the media reporting on DST like last Spring when most people moved their clocks ahead a hour but here in southwest Indiana the newspapers and tv stations went crazy reporting on this for the whole week leading up to the start of DST.I`m sure it will be much the same this time with interviews with local commissioners talking about when a possible DOT decision will be announced and all the same old stuff and telling people to move their clocks back a hour over and over again for 4 or 5 days leading up to the end of DST.OH well it should be entertaining!