Florida’s Democratic primary was not sanctioned by the Democratic Party because they violated party rules by holding their primary too early. At first, the Clinton campaign was cool with this, but once it became clear that it needed to grab at straws to even remain in the primary fight, they started belly-aching about disenfranchisement. One of the sub-arguments is that the state’s Democrats were disenfranchised by the mean old state Republicans. Well, here is a video of the “fight” Florida’s Democratic leadership didn’t put up in terms of trying to abide by the rules:
You’ve got the smirking Democratic minority leader of the Florida state Senate winking broadly and kind of, sort of pretending to support a resolution purporting to oppose holding the primary too early. I think I heard that something like 3 of Florida’s Democrats actually opposed the move to hold early primaries. They deserve what they get.
There’s nothing “minority” about that guy. Technically, I think he counts for two votes.
When polticians/legislators try to manipulate the future by changing rules and it doesnt work out, they best not ask for special treatment so they can have it ‘both ways’. That’s what I dealt with sometimes in my teaching days.But those were minors.It shows lack of character when adults do it.
“I think I heard that something like 3 of Florida’s Democrats actually opposed the move to hold early primaries. They deserve what they get.”
Doug, I am going to disagree with you on that point. THE VOTERS do not deserve this.
I am an American….my vote counts….so should theirs.
More than, say, the votes of the Indiana Republicans? How much does their vote count toward selecting the Republican nominee. How much has my primary vote counted in Indiana? If Florida voters express their wrath by voting out the bums who put them in this situation, perhaps I’ll reconsider my lack of sympathy.
Florida gets to select our president frequently. A bunch of retirees and boat people from Cuba hold way more political sway than we do here. Yet that wasn’t enough, and they tried to cut in line to have even more clout. Given their inability to conduct elections or even design or complete ballots with any competency, I say to hell with them.
Now they’ll probably petulantly vote Republican in response. Such is life. Whether through their ballot confusion last time, or the snit fit they’ll throw this time, the result is the same.
Doug, you made my point.
I think it is unfair that my vote for President (in a primary, especially) is normally worthless.
I proudly call myself a Democrat- and I think EVERYONE’s vote is important.
That’s fine; but under the current primary structure, everyone’s vote doesn’t count equally, even when things are working flawlessly. There is no sense getting worked up over the condition of Florida and Michigan since their duly elected representatives went out of their way to make their votes count less.
For the general principle, I suppose folks can get to work abolishing the electoral college and, after that, getting rid of the Senate, since citizens of low-density states have more representation per capita than citizens of more populous states.
I must point out that my legal voting residence is in Florida,in(in)famous Broward County to be exact.I voted for Obama and my vote isn’t counting.I blame the state’s politicians but I also blame the democratic party for not being able to foresee the problems we now have. They could have said in advance, for example, that Fl’s delegates would count half their number.We counted slaves as 3/5th people at one time ,so there is precedent to count people as fractions.
Every decision is so easy when one doesn’t look ahead.But any vote taken in a different context than in other states would have already compromised the electoral process,since both candidates should have campaigned before any vote..
I will vote in November so I won’t feel disenfranchized,but I’m upset with the controversy and the self-serving accusations.
At this point,well after the fact, I would just seat all delegates as non -committed at-large delegates (also MI).Let them decide as they choose, and go on to other issues.
But probably my solution favors one candidate over the other,so that’s the stumbling block now.
My vote never counts in a primary. I’m a partisan Libertarian. I am disinterested in casting votes for Republicans or Democrats.
But, because primary elections are essentially publicly funded functions for the private organizations the Rs and Ds are, with other parties and independents carefully excluded, I am effectively disenfranchised, with my “choice” being that I go to the polling place, sign the book, and go home. That’s voting for me at the primary election.
So, Kevin- care to address that?
Mike,
I agree. It is wrong. What do you want ME to do?
However, does that make what is happeing in Florida or Michigan right?
Bottom line- the DNC should not have taken away their delegates.
The state party knew the rules, knew the consequences. They took away their own delegates.
Doug,
There were other thing in that bill that Democrats had fought for (such as a paper trail for votes). You cannot expect them to vote against those issues either.
It is clear you and I will have to agree to disagree on this matter.
Votes should ALWAYS count.
Sorry to be pressing you a little bit on this, but that’s just too simple a formulation for me to let stand. How about an elementary school show of hands?
Clearly that wouldn’t pass muster — the voters are too young; the format is random; and a bunch of other problems. And, if we agree that those votes don’t count, then we aren’t arguing over an inviolate principle. Rather, we’re arguing about where the line should be drawn.
I’m arguing for drawing the line on the other side of Michigan and Florida because their duly elected representatives chose to ignore a rule and rolled the dice on whether the promised punishment would be implemented. I’m of the opinion that an unsanctioned primary of this nature should not be recognized.
Clearly you disagree, and that’s fine, but I wonder if you can articulate why you think the line should be drawn somewhere between the elementary school show of hands (if you agree that those votes can be excluded) and the Florida & Michigan exercises.
Probably the best way to do this is to have Obama advocate letting the Florida results count (they were both on the ballot), and splitting Michigan 50-50 (he honored the embargo and wasn’t on the ballot, and shouldn’t be penalized for playing by the rules). This should shut the Clintons up about it, make these rogue states feel counted, and let Obama continue on to the nomination without a perceived asterix over the matter. It would also probably give him some cred as someone willing to compromise to get to a solution.
I’ve heard the argument that the Clintons want the matter unresolved because it helps keep things just hazy enough for people who aren’t counting too hard to figure she has a non-destructive path to the nomination. If Florida & Michigan get resolved in any kind of a reasonable manner, the math immediately becomes pretty clear and unfavorable to the Clinton campaign.
Not sure how much water that argument holds, but it’s out there.
“I wonder if you can articulate why you think the line should be drawn somewhere between the elementary school show of hands (if you agree that those votes can be excluded) and the Florida & Michigan exercises.”
I think I can do that. The Constitution gives me the RIGHT to vote. Because I am over the age of 18 and a registered voter. True, it does not address primary votes, but it certainly excludes an elementary school show of hands.
I also think that the DNC made an error in penalizing Florida and Michigan in the first place. What was our argument in the Bush/Gore race? ALL VOTES SHOULD COUNT!!!
So, are we as democrats now acknowledging that the GOP was right, and we should only count the votes we want to?
I really hope not.
There is certainly no denying that the all-caps and exclamation points are persuasive.
Florida and Michigan wanted to be first, or almost first, to vote. So did a lot of states. Apparently the parties (particularly the Democratic party) decided that not every state could be first.
The primaries are party exercises. The party said to all the states that no more cutting in line would be permitted. Florida (to no surprise to me) either didn’t understand, or chose to be ignorant of the stated consequences. They chose to pretend they are special, and that special accomodations would be made for them. They chose to be the assholes that everyone who has stood in line and waited their turn has hated at some point in their lives. By “they”, I mean the elected officials. But if there was a groundswell of opposition from the population, I missed it. They determined they would do what they wanted, and it would all work out. Why they were so cavalier with their precious votes I have no idea.
For that matter, Iowa and New Hampshire annoy me, too. A friend in New Hampshire explained that they have to be first because they have a law that says so. I asked what would happen if every state passed such a law? The answer was, but our law would still say that so we would still have to be first.
New Hampshire is a nice place, as is Iowa. But not so nice that they should always determine the frontrunner for the nomination. And Florida’s just a mess. Florida can’t read a ballot. Florida can’t count votes. Florida can’t stand in line like everyone else. It gets tiresome.