The Washington Post has an article suggesting that a significant number of Hoosiers are racists who won’t vote for a black man. I’d like to think that’s not true. I’m a little sad that I can’t be sure. Basically, the article finds a number of anecdotal stories from campaign workers in Muncie and Kokomo where race was cited as a reason for not supporting Obama.
However, there is no real good way to know how many of these folks would vote for an entirely white person who was a Democrat with the same policy views as Obama. My feeling compelled to use a term like “entirely white” highlights how ludicrous this discussion is when you boil it down. Obama’s mother is a white woman from Kansas, his father was a Kenyan – but there are folks who won’t vote for him because he’s black by virtue of our country’s history where a drop of “black blood” makes you black instead of white.
My suspicion is that there certainly is a hardcore subset of people who are just flat out racists who won’t vote for a black person regardless of policy or party — perhaps more in Indiana than some other places. There is a larger group of people who are irrational partisans who won’t vote for a Democrat regardless of policy positions and irrespective of race. But, I think most Hoosiers are not racist or hyper-partisan and will vote for whoever they think will best reflect their views. This perspective is skewed by a lack of time or inclination to study the issues and the candidates’ actual policy positions as well as by a mild, but not irrevocable, bias based on political party and/or cultural/ethnic group. So, if all things between the candidates were exactly equal, I think it’s safe to say that Hoosiers are generally going to vote for a white Republican of northern European descent. But, for most, it’s not going to take a great deal to knock them out of that particular bias.
This was my post about ONE CASE of racist cracker-dom — CHANGED — from http://www.blueindiana.net .
“The Unexpected Democrat”
My sister’s father-in-law is a born and bred Kentucky native (he still says ain’t with a drawl) who has lived and worked in Fayette County for decades. He retired from Visteon– had worked at the plant for decades as well. He’s a dyed-in-the-wool Republican, having even served as a Republican County Commissioner in the late 1980s. I know he’s what one might even call a quintessential redneck, but I really like him.
At Easter, my brother-in-law said that his father had stated he might back “that nice little black boy.” (Ok, the statement sounds racist, but this is the very white blue-collar kind of conservative voter Hillary says is impossible for Obama to win.) He can’t stand what Bush has done to the country and to the economy. He thinks Clinton is just part of the same Washington crowd.
And today at the Mother’s Day thing, he had to come in and sheepishly admit to me that he’s for Obama. In fact, he’s kinda crazy for Barack. I showed him my pic of when I met the Senator when he came to Lafayette. He was showing it around to all the others.
Luckily I just happened to have a bumper sticker for the Senator and passed it along to him. And then he started telling me how he could get several Obama yardsigns placed in my small hometown (about 300).
Now if this is not a NEW phenomenon that the Indiana Republicans should worry about, I don’t know what it is. But for me it’s AWESOME!.
Well, say it again: whatever story you, or your editor, or your publisher wants to push can be backed up by quotes from someone (and it’s now accepted practice to make them up otherwise without the old-school wink of making them cabbies).
Look, I’d be the last one to tell you there aren’t a bunch of racists roaming the range–read, or better, don’t, the comments to any story in the Star. But by the same token, you go out unbidden and start collaring people to tell them how superior your own judgement is to their’s and you’re gonna hear some negative comments. I’ve been known to say a rude thing or two to some unwelcome solicitor, even without politics being involved.
So, while I’ve no doubt they could tell some stories (as, I’m sure, could Clinton workers), maybe it’s the fact that they fit this “horrible old racist crackers agin’ Obama” meme that makes ’em news. While we all hope for a better world–and some of us even hope to achieve it without the mass destruction of our enemies–maybe Ms Ross could reflect on what it was like for people battling real racists when there was no legal compunction preventing anything they felt like doing. Y’know, back in the excessive 60s.
I wouldn’t jump to the conclusion that someone is a racist just because they won’t vote for somebody.
In fact, seeing as how damaging it is to call someone a racist, I think we should reserve the phrase for, you know, real racists (like the neo-nazi punk poster from a few weeks ago).
There are plenty of reasons not to vote for Obama. He is by far the most liberal nominee since McGovern, for example. Hard to see how conservative whites are going to vote for that.
I was quite proud of Indiana in the primary. We saw the race about the same way as the country at large has: close. While Pennsylvania was doing its hand-wringing about whether they could vote against Obama and not be seen as racist, or who was wearing a flag pin or whatever else consumed their time in the national spotlight, we just went out and voted, and judged the two candidates to be about equally deserving of our support.
You can find spatterings of outright racism a lot of places in this country. In one voting place right on the Ohio River down here in rural Perry County, a poll worker described to me having two people come in and announce they had arrived there “only to vote against the nigger.” I don’t see that attitude being widespread in my county, though, even with Hillary winning 2-1. I think the vote will go for Obama here in the fall, although probably by a pretty close margin.
I do recall a campaign meeting a month or so ago, with a couple of Obama national campaign organizers (low level) talking to us. The two happened to be U.S. citizens living for several years in Great Britain, who returned to work on his campaign. A very sweet local woman asked in typical unassuming southern Indiana style, “What should I say if I’m talking to someone and the person says he agrees with Obama in general but just can’t vote for a black man?” The rep replied, “Thank the person for their time and move on. That person is racist, and by the definition that person gave, you can’t win that vote. Go talk to someone whose vote is actually winnable.” That was said so directly, and so simply. Yeah, some of our friends, families, and neighbors are *otherwise* good people. But some do have this character flaw called racism, and sometimes there’s just no helping it.
Here in the most segregated county in America, I think there is truth to that statement. And Obama only lives a few miles from here. I think what will happen is that some of these died-in-the-wool blue collar voters in my congregation will choose not to vote for president before voting for a republican or a black man.
I think what will happen is that some of these died-in-the-wool blue collar voters in my congregation will choose not to vote for president before voting for a republican or a black man.
I don’t see that happening. They’ll vote. They voted for Reagan. If McCain can make that kind of connection, they’ll vote for McCain.
I think that McCain’s personal story can bring these people over to his side. If he will tell the story, of course (he seems to have a Bob Dole streak to him, doesn’t want to talk about how he because disabled in service to his country).
What ever deficiencies Lake County has, it is patriotic and very pro-military. My son’s CCD teacher’s son is a Marine on leave from Iraq, and the outpouring of support for him in Munster get me a little verklempt. The respect for the military here is strong.
As for not voting for a black man, I haven’t heard any overt racism here. Nobody has used the N word in my presence, for example. So I really wonder if Barack’s race is in any way an impediment to his success here.
To be fair, more Republicans in Howard County voted for Tony Zirkle than Luke Puckett – so it shouldn’t be too hard to find examples of this in Kokomo.
But then, I live in Bloomington, and even our local paper says that we’re not real Indiana Democrats.
dyed in the wool.
Racism has been subliminated in Indiana since the early 1970’s. It has by no means disappeared, whether one is talking about whites, blacks, asians or anybody else.
By subliminated I mean where race is spoken about only in either known circles or by using code phrases.
There was a quote in that article that went along the lines of “whites take care of whites, and blacks take care of blacks”. I thought it was the most interesting quote there, because it strikes me as being a key to thing- where being white and voting against Obama on the basis of the color of his skin *is* racist, but the unspoken part of the story is the number of black voters who will vote for Obama on the basis of the color of his skin, and I suppose the reader is left to *not* consider that as racism. (As certainly, women will vote for Hillary Clinton, or men will vote against her.)
Either way, either direction, it’s all racism (and sexism, for that matter) to me, and there’s plenty of it. See that MLK Jr. quote about the content of character, for referrence.
It’s sad that seemingly only white men like Mike Kole use that MLK quote to justify their studious avoidance of any discussion of the continuing problems of white supremacy and anti-Black prejudices…
Kinda like it’s mostly conservative white folk who decry “the use of the race card”.
Wilson, you will forever be a victim, won’t you.
No, Wilson. I was decrying all racism and sexism.
Christians are victims of strident secularism as well as conservatives of the liberal media,and of liberal judges,and Blacks are victimizing our hard-working Middle Class with Black liberation preaching,and gays are making marriage less holy by wanting to get married themselves, but otherwise there is no victimization in this country. I hope I haven’t oversimplified and left out any of the dangers,or made anybody look bad.
Notice how Wilson used the term “white supremacy” rather than “racism”?
I’ve noticed that Wright used that term very often as well.
It’s pretty clever of libs to use that term. Because African-Americans can’t be racists if the real problem is not racism, but white supremacy.
OTOH, the case that there is “white supremacy” in this country is even weaker than the one saying this is a racist society. White suppemacy is dressing up in robes and burning crosses. Damn little of that going on.
At least those arguing that this is a racist society can talk about “institutional racism” and other nebulous concepts.
there was a cross burning in indiana just this week!
also, there was that matter last month of a congressional candidate hanging out with nazis at a birthday party for hitler. remember that?
Isn’t White supremacy just a more specific definition of racism? That’s basically what racism is ,isn’t it?..I don’t mean to say that Hispanics or Muslims can’t be racists also,but racism as policy by those legally in control is the kind of racism that has devastated our society. Marching from the churches, burning crosses and wearing white robes, is the religious manifestation of racism. So it seems logical that Black churches are a sort of a counter balance to White churches ,especially in Southern post-civil war American culture. Black liberation theology is probably a reactive perception to what has been , and is a religious manifestation aimed at those who have legally set policy. It’s all one big picture.
I don’t mean to blame or excuse anyone.
Oh, come on, the guy photographed with Illinois Nazis got beat by almost 33%.
doug, i’m not sure what your point is, but i was responding to buzzcut’s laughable suggestion that there is no white supremacy in the country.
To answer you succintly, Lou, no.
stAllio! – I was afraid it didn’t come across well. Just a bit of sarcasm. I think it’s a little frightening that Zirkle didn’t lose by a greater margin.
White Supremacy isn’t racism? So then neither is Black supremacy. Let me think about that for a while.
Stallito, you need to read, dude. “Damn little” doesn’t mean none. It means damn little.
Lou, my point is that “white supremacy” is a type of racism that African-Americans cannot be guilty of, by definition. If the focus is on racism, then we can bust guys like Wright for being racists.
It is kind of like how Jesse Jackson doesn’t think that African-Americans can be racist, by definition, because racism requires “power”. That’s a stupid argument, but Wright is a lot smarter than Jackson is. So he makes the focus “white supremacy”, and he totally sidesteps the argument that African-Americans can be racists too.
I think you could make a good argument that all racism is equally wrong in an abstract moral sense. But, I don’t think you could successfully argue that all racism is equally harmful.
Buzzcut,
Racism with power behind it,so as to able can make laws that could be called ‘racist’, is a higher level than just sitting at home and hating that racism restricts you,don’t you think? It’s true no one likes to be personally hated racially,but it does give tacit justification for the racist laws being enacted ..
So how do we short-circuit the cycle?
buzzcut, you need to learn how to write, dude, because this is what you wrote:
in other words, you said you don’t believe that “there is ‘white supremacy in this country”. obviously there is.
According to Merriam-Webster, racism is “a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race”.
White supremacy is a racist ideology, as is any “color” supremacy. Racist ideologies are an organized and usually activist and overt expression of racist beliefs manifesting as reactionary threats, both implied and real. All supremacist ideologues are racist, but not all racists are supremacists.
Only the unlearned believe that white supremacy is the only kind extent in the world, much less just in the U.S. Having “power”, or not, is irrelevant to racism itself. Having “power” may reflect the tendency to use real threats over implied threats, but not exclusively.
Doug, I believe that racism is equally wrong in a concrete moral sense, not an abstract one. And, I think that racism itself is equally harmful because it is an inaccurate set of beliefs, based on factors that have nothing to do with “race” at all.
What has been historically unequally harmful in the U.S. has been the overt manifestations of racist ideologies. And that is cultural, not racist.
you said you don’t believe that “there is ‘white supremacy in this countryâ€. obviously there is.
There’s nothing obvious about it.
One of my guilty pleasures is the “feedback” column in the Times and Post-Tribune, where people phone in and leave messages that get printed in the paper.
A recent one was from someone from Gary pleading for help because her block has been taken over by gangbangers. It said that a house on the block had been taken over by disrespectful, gun toting young men who intimidated everyone on the block.
Now, maybe it’s just me, but I read into that message that the author was an elderly African-American lady, and the gangbangers were also African-American.
Now, what is more dertimental to the African-American experience in 2008? “White supremicists” burning crosses (if it wasn’t a really a hoax, which is my suspicion), or gang related violence (30 Chicago public school students murdered so far this year in gang related violence, for example).
That’s where I’m coming from. If there are white supremicits, they are so marginal as to be irrelevant.
I agree with stAllio! that there are “white supremacists” in Indiana.
Values and behavior like that just doesn’t go away at the drop of the hat.
You guys are full of it with the power thing. If there are white supremicists, who exactly are they? Senators? Presidents? Anyone with any real power?
Nope. Maybe they’re rednecks. Poor. Uneducated.
The only power they have is the power to intimidate with stupid acts like throwing a burning cross on someone’s lawn, or leaving a noose somewhere.
Those are not acts of power.
The most notorious act of African-American racism recetly was Colin Ferguson’s murder spree on the Long Island Railroad. He killed a bunch of people. What the heck did that have to do with “power”. Was it any worse a crime because Ferguson wasn’t in a position of power?
buzzcut: in your previous comment you as much as admitted that white supremacists do exist (only that there are “damn little” of them)–not just that, but you criticized my reading comprehension (while simultaneously misspelling my name) for suggesting you’d written otherwise. now you’re going back to denying that they exist at all? we know they exist: we have photographs of them hanging out with tony zirkle!
zirkle, by the way, got 6,000 votes, or 17% of republican primary votes in his district. if a candidate can associate with nazis and advocate segregation and get 17% of the republican vote, clearly these are not fringe beliefs.
Not to detract significantly from the point being made about the existence of actual white supremacists, but any major party candidate who gathers a mere 17% most certainly is a fringe candidate, unless it’s a six-way race. Anything less than a 40% return is considered a repudiation and/or colossal failure for either a Republican or Democratic candidate in a 2-way race.
it was a 3-way race, not a 2-way race.
Ah. Well, it’s still a beating of a fringe candidate. A shame it wasn’t a greater beating, though.
Mike Kole,
You wrote:
(source)
By your logic, Barack Obama is now a fringe candidate. Of course, I realize that from a partisan Libertarian perspective you probably already thought that anyway, but if your metric classifies both Zirkle and Obama as “fringe”, I suggest you tune it.
That is, if you want to make sense to the millions of Americans you’re sure are just dying to become Libertarians. Maybe you don’t, and if so you wouldn’t differ from most Libertarians I’ve met.
So, Branden, by your logic, because Barack Obama got pounded in West Virginia, he has lost the election?
I would say that Obama was a fringe candidate in the WV primary, though.
Say- do you simply look for any opportunity possible to jaw-bone me and generally rail against Libertarians? I mean, if we are as fringe as your last paragraph implies, why are we worth the constant effort? Just asking.
buzzcut: in your previous comment you as much as admitted that white supremacists do exist (only that there are “damn little†of them)–not just that, but you criticized my reading comprehension (while simultaneously misspelling my name) for suggesting you’d written otherwise. now you’re going back to denying that they exist at all? we know they exist: we have photographs of them hanging out with tony zirkle!
I originally refered to “white supremacy”. I don’t think that there is “white supremacy” in this country.
There are some fringe people with white supremacist views. Totally marginal people who don’t make a damn bit of difference to anyone. In terms of what Wright talks about, no, there is no “white supremacy” in this country. And what racism there is is similarly marginal. There is no great movement by whites in power to systematically keep African-Americans down, as there was up until 1965 in southern state.
Your comments about racism are, sadly enough, wrong.
Your comments about racism are, sadly enough, wrong.
Howso? Seen some lynchings lately, have ya? I must have missed those.
How, exactly, has white supremacy, caused harm to African-Americans in Indiana in the last year. Or 10 years. Or 20.
Give me some examples, and not just BS ones like cross burnings, which could very well be hoaxes like those nooses.
And don’t just reference that goofy Nazi get togehter. What influence do those nutjobs have, anyway? I’m still waiting for a message on my blog from the punk who threatened Doug. All bluster, no bite.
Racism is much more subliminal now. You won’t see someone being chased down the road by some good ole boys in a pickup.
Instead, you’ll hear rental agents saying that their published availables are taken, different interest rates be given on loans, job promotions made with nebulous reasoning. Ignoring a potential customer for no reason.
Works that way with other biases like gender and age, as well.
Subtle, informal, insidious and very difficult to prove malicious intent.
Try sexual orientation as well. They are the new “untouchables” along with immigrants (even legal ones).
I wasn’t trying to be all-inclusive, but I agree with your point.
Pretty frickin’ trivial stuff guys.
That’s my attitude, that’s why I think that we are in a post-racist society.
You have the exact opposite view, that that stuff is not trivial, and that’s why you think that we live in a still racist society.
I don’t see a lot of room for compromise.
I think that homosexuals are in a different situation. They are being discriminated against quite plainly with marriage laws. They are in a situation much more akin to what African-Americans faced pre-1965.
It’s only trivial because you don’t suffer from it. Perhaps your opinion will change one day.
First of all, I used to be under 25 and not married. I’ve had higher insurance rates, inability to get rentals, etc. It’s perfectly legal to discriminate by age, if not race. Anyone denied a rental because of their race can file a lawsuit.
Secondly, anyone denied a job promotion because of their race can sue the employer.
As for being ignored by a salesperson, shop somewhere else.
This is all a bunch of whining about trivialities. We all deal with shit every day that’s waaaaaay tougher than this.
Perhaps your opinion will change one day.
Not bloody likely.
There are people in this world who do what they need to do to get by. By and large they are Republicans.
There are people in this world who whine and whine and whine. By and large they are Democrats.
The world ain’t fair, dude. I can’t force any tears for people crying that a salesperson (or a cabdriver, or a waiter) ignored them. There’s too much real stuff going on.
Like the Lake County Auditor stealing $500 of my property tax rebate. Now that’s a real problem.
Why Buzzcut, you’re whining. It’s only money, you know.
I wish Republicans didn’t whine. Activist judge this, liberal media that.
Why Buzzcut, you’re whining. It’s only money, you know.
Ahh, but that’s the difference. I’m doing something about it. I’ve even got Democrat Rep. Charlie Brown of Gary working for me, asking the AG if this was legal. I even have an opinion from Democrat Speaker Pat Bauer in my favor!
It wasn’t legal, and I fully expect to be getting another $500 check in the mail.
Teach you Democrooks what happens when you steal my money.
Whining and working. Yes, that makes it all so much better. LOL