Brian Wallheimer, writing for the Journal & Courier, has a pretty good article on illegal immigration. It struck me as even handed and a nice encapsulation of some of the points of contention.
In particular, I liked Purdue professor James McCann’s description of Americans’ ambivalence on the subject:
“Americans have always been ambivalent about immigration.”
Those attitudes, which at times can be found to varying degrees in the same person, generally fall into three categories.
“On one hand, there’s the idea that immigrants are a threat, and you can see that going way back. Call that the fear factor.
“And then there’s this sort of market view that we need more workers,” McCann said.
“There’s (also) the social gospel ethic of being neighborly to immigrants: Open up your country as you would your home, and allow people from abroad, especially the poor and repressed, to settle here peacefully. The words at the Statue of Liberty capture this sentiment.”
The article was decent at putting forth both sides of the issue.I could site plenty of evidence to show the harmful effects of uncontrolled immigration but there’s no use really.The one thing that must be stated is that last yrs failed amnesty bill as estimated by the non-partisan congressional budget office would have only reduced furture illegal immigration by 25%.
You can’t reform immigration until you can control immigration and you can not control immigration until you first secure the borders and stop the flow of illegal immigration.Once the illegal flow has stopped then you can have your path to legalization for those already here.Trying to do both at the same time (secure the border and a path to legalization) has been rejected by the american people in 2006 and 2007 and that was with a republican president pushing his party for the legislation.Several senate democrats also voted no to cloture on this bill.
McCain and Obama have exactly the same position on this issue.McCain trys to have it both ways but as written elsewhere and and commented about elsewhere McCain is still very upset that the bill he co-sponsored last yr then backed away from slightly all the while voting for it almost caused his presidential primary downfall early last Summer.
He tries now to avoid the subject.He waffles by saying first secure the border then deal with those already here.Next he gives interviews to newspapers the Nevada Sun I believe where he says comprehensive immigration reform first and tells Hispanic audiences he meets with closed to the media by the way that comprehensive immigration reform will be his first priority if elected president.Next he’ll tell a audience of republicans something different.
Its really not a hard issue to solve secure the border and prove the flow of illegal immigratnts is being stopped then start a legalization process for those already here.The problem is a enough memebers of comngress do not want that approach.They want legalization and security at the same time and a majority of the american people the last two yrs do not trust the gvmt to come through on the security part because they remeber the 1986 amnesty.
In this amnesty there were plenty of border security provisions problem is after the legalization was passed members of congress went back and gutted the security part of the legislation.
Conservative democrat Heath Shuler had a excellent security bill called the SAVE ACT before congress supported by the Blue Dog democrats including my congressman Ellsworth and republicans but Pelosi wouldn’t allow a vote on the bill because she knew it would pass.They came close to getting enough signatures on a discharge petition to go around the speaker and bring it to a vote but fell short.
The issue isn’t close to being solved since politicians have no desire to even tough it right now.
Ask Obama about this issue and he is comfortable talking about it and will give you a straight answer ask McCain and he is clearly uncomfortable talking about it and you’ll get a different answer depending on the group he’s speaking to at the time.Howver make no mistake about it McCain belives in legalization first or at the same time as security no matter what he says to whom.These two men have different positions on many many issues but this isn’t one of them.
We might look closer at the Indiana state cost of illegal immigration.
The Tax Foundation sited $18 million for Indiana tax-payers in 2005-2007 to illegals.
http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/9.html
It’s a National economic problem.
How are the laws enforced? On a Federal, State, and Local level. Maybe babies delevered in Indiana should not receive Citizenship.
Back to the Federal government.
Try to talk to a Hispanic woman 8 months pregnant with 2 children under the age of 3 and another woman in the same way… who speaks little English in Northern Indiana…and then ask what is going on with illegals and taxes.
That would require an amendment to the U.S. Constitution which states that “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.”
I believe that’s a direct result of the manner in which the Dred Scott court decided that slaves weren’t citizens.
I might agree that you need to secure the borders first before being more liberal on immigration, HOWEVER, I think you can try to fix both at the same time.
I am getting very tired of seeing the “semi-legal” H1-B visas being handed out to high-paying jobs, though. I think those should just be flat elminated, or only allowed for 1-year while the citizenship is finallized.
I am more outraged by high-tech workers lowering the pay rate for my jobs for 7 years, then going back to their home country with their riches, than I am hispanic workers making below minimium wage and then staying here, spending most of their money here.
Your right about the H1’s Jason but imagine how lower skilled workers feel when companies hire illegal immigrants and use them to undercut legal workers pay.It happens all the time.George Boras of Harvard even did a study on the subject and found illegal immigrants lowered the wages for low skilled workers around 10-15% I believe.Roofing companies,drywalling businesses, have been run out of business in some places because of companies using illegal alien labor.Construction wages are also adversly affected.
The H1 program and the way it’s abused(high skilled) and illegal immigration(low skilled) hurts legal workers of all races.I saw a guy referencing a study on the news last week that stated the meat packing industry paid a average of 17-19 dollars a hour in some places 10 years ago now the average is around 9$ a hour.
Of course we’re told by the Chamber of Commerce these are jobs americans won’t do.Time and time again however once these raids have taken place lines of legal citizens are showing up to take the jobs.
Again I am not a round them up and deport them person or hold disdain for people who are simply trying to provide a better life for their families but we can not accept all of Mexico and Central Americas poverty or the rest of the worlds for that matter.These gvmnts need to get their act together.Hell that report a while back by Katie Couric and CBS news where illegal aliens come across the border in Texas to have their babies costs millions every year.We have enough healthcare issues in this country for legal citizens without trying to take resposibility for Mexico and Central America’s citizens.There are of course illegal immigrants from other countries but this is where most come from and let us not forget the visa overstays since this country has no visa entry or exit systemor none that I’ve heard of that works.
The senate a while back renewed the program that reinburses hospitals for the cost of treating illegal immigrants.I forget what the cost was but it was millions aloted for this program.Every time I see this I think this is money that needs to go to legal citizens of the U.S or else have these people’s home countries repay our gvmt.Fat chance.I agree with the program but if we had secure borders this would be another expense that would be much lower.
Secure the borders then you can legalize those aready here anyhting else will not work and be hard to pass.People do not trust the gvmnt will come through with the security part of any legalization legislation and with good reason.They remeber 1986 and those broken promises.
Or, from an economic standpoint, you could argue that you don’t need to secure the borders at all…
Punish the companies that hire illegals and remove the benefits to H1B’s. Give companies the tools they need (national DB?) that will allow them to be sure the people they are hiring are not illegal. The companies that then violate these laws should be financially punished to such a degree that no company would dare do it.
That would solve the issue described where illegal immigrants are lowering wages, pure and simple. Instead, we spend all sorts of time going after brown people, building walls, and being hateful. I would bet that this is the way many powerful businesses like it, and they have many (R) AND (D) friends that keep it this way…
I’m not sure which way it cuts in terms of good jobs for the American worker, but it seems that there is some inequity in the fact that capital and corporations can operate in a practically borderless world, but the movement of labor is much more drastically curtailed.
Punishing the companies that hire illegal labor should be at the top of the list. Getting actual federal legislation and the means to do that which would once and for all be enforced in this regard is another matter.
The Dallas Morning News had a good piece today about the number of illegal immigrants self deporting has been increasing the past few years in Texas.As it becomes harder to find work without documentation and as described by the illegal immigrant in the piece a hostile attitude toward illegal immigrants in general.With the state of the economy this will probably get worse.Unfortunately these people bare the burden of this type of sentiment while management of the companies that exploit them and knowingly hire them remain nameless and escape such treatment.
Prosecution has been stepped up somewhat over the past few years of the illegal employers but it’s not near what it needs to be and the penalties need to be more severe.
Nice discussion but the issue will have to wait until 2009 for the next president to deal with.It’s also way down on the list of issues concerning americans now.It will resurface though.May be a little higher among republican voters but it’s been my experience most of them don’t even know McCains position on the issue which I admit if your not paying attention can be hard to figure out.However anyone who’s followed McCain’s record knows where he stands.
I admit, I have not followed either on this issue very much (yet). What’s your take on them?
Obama like McCain in last years comprehensive bill co-sponsored by McCain with Ted Kennedy was a supporter of that bill.He did receive criticism from supporters of this legislation because in a effort to kill the bill in the senate so called poison pills(amendments) were introduced to try and kill the legislation and senator Obama voted yes on some of these.
You know what I mean things that seem logical for a democrat or republican to support but if the amendment would pass it would undo the bi-partisan coalition that was supporting the legislation.
McCain stayed true by voting no on all these amendments as did most republicans and democrats led by Kennedy who supported the legislation.In the end it didn’t make any difference the bill failed the last cloture vote.Lugar voted yes Bayh voted no.Lugar is far more liberal on immigration than Bayh.
So while Obama is very much in support of a liberal immigration policy so is McCain in fact most so called experts like Mark Kirkorian believe McCain is more committed a true believer if you will to a liberal immigration policy.Obama has the advantage of being able to openly support and discuss his position on this issue while McCain would rather have a tooth pulled than talk about it.Liberal immigration policies only hurt Obama among rural blue collar democrats and with the economy going south it’s still not a top issue.He can make up any votes he would lose with Hispanic voters.McCain on the other hand has a base other than the economic cheap labor republicans who care deeply about the issue and along with some border security people will sit out or vote down ballot the issue hurts McCain much much more.
Also having read the 700pg plus bill available on the internet last year that was defeated you may wish to know it had large increases in high tech H-1 visas pushed for by senator Cantwell from Washington State and a few others.Patty Murray I believe.I’m sure there were republicans pushing for this also I just can’t remember them.
See thats the thing with these large pieces of legislation they are very broad and have many things hidden in them.