The Indianapolis Star has a poorly reasoned editorial about funding the Capital Improvement Board for the sports stadiums in Indianapolis. Here was my take on the arguments offered:
1. Visitors will stay in hotels and eat in restaurants in and around the stadiums.
2. Positive marketing for Indianapolis spills over (to some unspecified degree) for the rest of the state.
3. Indianapolis is in better shape than Cleveland in Detroit (inexplicably, I guess, since those cities have stadiums as well.)
4. What’s good for Indianapolis is good for the state.
5. We would prefer not to raise taxes in Indianapolis.
Indiana simply isn’t rich enough to tell hundreds of thousands of visitors who attend events each year at Conseco Fieldhouse, Lucas Oil Stadium and other Downtown venues that Hoosiers don’t need their patronage.
This looks to me a little like one of those “What do you mean ‘we’ kemo sabe?” moments. The ease with which the Indianapolis Star seems to interchange “Indianapolis” with “Indiana” is a little disturbing. Seems like the capital city is mostly concerned with the rest of the state when it’s time to have the General Assembly dish out money.
This regionalism nonsense is getting out of hand. The donut counties were taxed on food & beverages to fund the new stadium in the first place. The main proposal to fund light rail between Fishers and Indy is to tax the region. Etc. Well, all tax policy is essentially a function of taking money from a greater pool in order to fund the desires of a limited part of that pool. This merely follows form. Why pipe up now? It’s just those kooks and wingnuts that oppose redistribution of wealth. ;-)
I hope reps and State Sens from around the state resist this anyhow.
I think any city/town/county whose name has a letter “F” somewhere in its name should pay for the stadia. Not our fault those residents decided to live in localities with a letter with such a negative connotation.
It’s that kind of logic which rules in certain quarters. Though, now that I think about it, it does have a good sound to it. ;)
We just need to split the state into several parts. Nobody wants “da Region” to be part of the state, lots of people don’t want to be associated with southern Indiana (and we are pretty different) and apparently central Indiana has a total superiority complex towards the rest of the state. So lets split into 3 parts. The capitols can be Gary, Indy, and New Albany (or Evansville, or something. Vincennes? Corydon used to be the capitol…) Anyway, everything would be solved if I ran the world.
What percentage of people who attend Colts games actually live in Indianapolis? My impression as a longtime Indy resident is that most of the people aren’t from here. Doug how do you define Indianapolis? My brother and his neighbors (all huge Colts fans) say say they are from Indianapolis but the live in Hendricks County. They come to Indy to shop, attend sporting events, and visit our library and cultural institution. They think of the amenities as part of their city but don’t pay taxes here.
There are those who say that the people who pull Indianapolis Mayor Ballard’s puppet strings are all attorneys with B & T who live in Hamilton County. I wouldn’t go that far, but the truth is that the surrounding counties benefit from Indianapolis and exert a fair amount of pressure on our city government.
I’d probably agree that some arrangement involving, say, the Indianapolis Metropolitan Statistical Area, would make some sense. But taking general fund dollars from the likes of White and Carroll counties — unless it’s something fairly minimal that corresponds to the benefits these counties get out of Indianapolis stadiums — really isn’t justified; and particularly not for the reasons expressed by that ridiculous Indy Star editorial.
Don’t get me started on the Star’s editorial board or Matt Tully.
I don’t think somebody likes the shoe being on the other foot.
Ever since the creation of state government here in Indiana, the periphery has been sucking money and resources from the core.
Now, it’s turn around is fair play time, and what? Wah, boo hoo, poor us, from the periphery.
Don’t expect a sympathetic ear from me. I think it’s about time the periphery started carrying their fair share. Just because it comes due over an item that could have been better managed, well that’s too bad.
‘The periphery” — quaint term for the rest of the state. Pretty aptly captures why us rubes in the sticks sometimes have negative feelings about the fancy city-folk in central Indiana, however.
I was brought up in the periphery, so I’m not calling you rubes, or anything else.
That is just one of those delegitimizing arguments in lieu of some more substantial argument.
Today, the core of the state’s population rests mainly in the nine counties centered on Indianapolis, Allen county and the region of Lake and Porter counties. Yet, the political power in the state has always been concentrated outside of the population core(s).
Each and every time the pendulum shifts away from the advantage of the periphery, the periphery pisses and moans. I cannot think of a time when it hasn’t – ever. This time seems to be no different.
Now, you’re doing it again. Poor little us, we have to pay up for the folly of the core. The periphery had the power to say NO, and didn’t.
Now, it’s time to pay the piper because the periphery failed to stand against the core. Why? Because ther periphery wanted the folly too. You, personally, may not have wanted it, but your elected representatives surely did. Colts tickets, mmmmm.
You want all the benefits without contributing your fair share. In this case, unless your own elected representatives make a public stand otherwise, you’re going to have to whether you like it or not.
Just remember that it is monies from the core that support that little institution that keeps your little corner of heaven humming along. Maybe you ought to keep that in mind before complaining about somewhere else getting a big handout.
More legitimately, it would be interesting to see money flows into Indy versus money flows out. I don’t know which way that breaks.
Couple of “minor points”: a) I join with those against the “rest of the state” in baling out the decisions made by Indianapolis –don’t remember them asking us if we thought it was a good idea. b) kind of remember from econ classes that there was something referred to as “supply and demand”–now maybe it was just a useless theory but if the area and the fans to these activities will not support the cost then just perhaps it is time to get realistic. Along the same theme of “supply and demand” Indy is constantly trying for major conventions particularly such as the FFA National Convention. Just how high do they think they can keep raising the cost of hotels and food before it becomes a factor to make other areas (Louisville is a good example) of lower cost places for the convention (use of facilities) and for the participants to afford to attend.
Having the Pacers and Colts and having a “big town” convention center may be nice IF you can afford them. Personally I may be an older American but I have no wish to ever go again within 465 ring –and use that to get around Indy. Just do wish could take grandkids to a quality zoo, etc. but there is always other places to go.
Doug–read latest material from Marcus Morton as he partially addresses this issue on in-flow and out-flow. Based primarily on pay, but then that would be interesting to see figures on the big time Pacers and Colts as to where they spend their money taken from Indy.
“Stadiums are not a net local economic benefit, and the reasons cities are paying for them is because the [federal] government made the professional leagues monopolies” ¬ exempt from anti-trust laws that apply to most other industries.â€
The result: “A very large number of people are getting harmed a little bit,” Noll says, but the subsidies usually are small enough per citizen that people don’t tend to organize opposition to them.” http://news.stanford.edu/pr/97/971218stadiums.html
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That was until taxpayers got pissed off enough to organize populist protests at the Statehouse. Now that the local tap isn’t breaking down lawmakers are being asked to go statewide…
Make that: Now that the local tap IS breaking down…
To use another Monty Python reference, “Blimey! This redistribution of wealth is harder than it looks!”
Most people believe it’s okay to rob, er, tax someone else to pay for the thing they like or want. Somehow, they get resentful when the tables are turned.
At what point will people finally wise up, let government get back to its’ core functions (I mean, socialized football stadiums?), and let the users pay fully for those things government can allocate more fairly/adequately (like water or transportation)? If this example isn’t good enough, what is?
Am I missing something here? Are you telling me that people from Columbus or Muncie can go to Indianapolis, watch a game, go shopping, and then go out to eat & drink for free?
WOW! Sign us up, I’ll pay taxes for a free night on the town in wonderful Indianapolis!
Oh…you mean I have to PAY for tickets, PAY for a hot dog and a beer while I’m at the game, PAY for parking, PAY for dining out, PAY for the bar, and PAY for shopping? And there is an extra tax on most of those items that goes to things like stadiums?
Sounds like I’m already paying for it, if I use it. Can someone tell me why this is even a discussion? Sounds like it is either generating great wealth for downtown Indianapolis, or they’re doing it wrong…
Jason, you forgot the Whiner Surcharge (with the periphery malus applied). Please send payment to: CIB Needs Your Money, 1 Crybaby Way, The CORE, 46201.
That goes for the rest of you as well. Thanks in advance for helping fund the Irsay Dowry Project and the Simon Mall Rat Recovery Program.
Liz for King!
When she’s in charge, this will all be fixed!
I’m not even in the same time zone, so why should I pay?
Because.