Obama came to Plainfield today. My T-shirt in the race today had “Obama” on it. Someone who was passing me with a Mary Sullivan t-shirt asked, “Did you get tickets for Plainfield.” Regrettably, no. (Sullivan is vying to take the seat currently held by Jon Elrod in the General Assembly.) The Plainfield tickets were gone in about a 1/2 hour. As a friend of mine suggested, if he can sell out Plainfield in a half hour, he should be at Conseco Fieldhouse or something.
Recently, I heard that Obama’s pastor made inflammatory comments at some point. And I’m supposed to care, why? Because I’m supposed to suspend my disbelief and assume that Obama’s an America-hating Black Panther or something? Is it now fair game to attribute to McCain anything that shows up in a sermon of any minister whose support McCain seeks?
I just wonder how many mouth breathers out there will simultaneously believe that Obama is a closet Muslim and that his Christian pastor is a dangerous influence on Obama.
Update Lynn Sweet has an article on the Plainfield rally. Obama specifically rejected the secular commentary of his pastor while stating that the pastor taught him about Jesus.
“I just want to say to everybody here that as somebody who was born into a diverse family, as somebody who has little pieces of America all in me, I will not allow us to lose this moment, where we cannot forget about our past and not ignore the very real forces of racial inequality and gender inequality and the other things that divide us. I don’t want us to forget them.
“We have to acknowledge them and lift them up and when people say things like my former pastor said, you know, you have to speak out forcefully against them. But what you also have to do is remember what Bobby Kennedy said. That it is within our power to join together to truly make a United States of America. And that we have to do not just so that our children live in a more peaceful country and a more peaceful world, but that is the only way that we are going to deliver on the big issues that we’re facing in this country.
Update 2 Oh, and Obama increases his delegate lead over Clinton by 6 more after the Iowa county conventions. Basically, 8 of the delegates previously alloted to Edwards defected – Obama took 7 of them while Clinton took only 1 of them. In terms of pledged delegates, Obama now has 1,407 to Clinton’s 1,252. With superdelegates, the total delegate count is estimated at 1,624 to Clinton’s 1,505. Obama needs about 400 more for the nomination. There are 683 up for grabs.
Update 3 Niki Kelly has a good article on Obama’s visit in the Fort Wayne Journal Gazette. He spent 45 minutes answering questions from the audience and was apparently fairly detailed in his responses. Mary Beth Schneider also has a report for the Indy Star.
The local crazies calling on the Greg Garrison Show were thoroughly convinced Obama was going to Plainfield because the Muslim Center is located there … I’m expecting such a post from Gary Welsh any minute!
What a great example of why church and state need to remain free,one from the other..
Even though tickets went quick, everyone who showed up at the Obama rally got in.
Possibly if McCain had a pastor of 17 years, who was a campaign adviser, and who had a history of strongly divisive and racist remarks, with publicly available video to demonstrate them, that might be worthy of your consideration.
Because then the cases you suggest would in fact be parallel.
McCain actively sought the support of Jerry “blame fags and the ACLU for 9/11” Falwell. That’s worse, imho.
Well, it is not good, that’s for sure.
But I don’t see how that addresses your original point, or my response – unless the answer to your question
is yes, in your view – but you seemed to imply otherwise, originally.
Just to jump in, McCain has several severely anti-gay pastors that have said horrific and terrible things about the LGBT community causing pestilence, disease, pedophilia, the downfall of civilization, etc. When asked to repudiate these ministers, he did not. In fact, he drew two of them closer to appease the right wing.
As for Obama’s choice of venue, it’s perfect for the Obama camp: small venue that sells out quickly in a majority white community. That means the place will be standing room only and there will be lots of white faces. That translates into “I am super popular in Indiana and I have cross-over support.” After all, Indiana isn’t known for our minority populations… With Team Hillary pushing the whole “It’s because he’s black!” meme, the campaigns best response is to show he can excite all Americans. What better way to say excitement than a packed room?
I just want to know what the rules are. I’d hate to bring a knife to a gun fight.
I know local crazies who try to be first post on Indiana blogs to change the subject.
So it’s “The guy who introduced Obama to his supernatural superstitions and fables hates America” vs. “The guys who McCain cozies up to to curry favor with his base state that their supernatural being uses his power to express displeasure about the gays or the Catholics or something.”
Can anyone identify the scary common thread here that is essential to getting elected–but frankly should cause any rational person to cringe whenever this crap comes up?
Unless Jesus is a potential cabinet appointee, how about we have just a bit of stfu regarding whose invisible superdude (or invisible superdude’s black p.r. guy) is more vengeful or hates America more, and a bit more policy discussion.
Maybe the problem with Obama vs Clinton is that they are very close on issues. I don’t see much difference and one would be as good as the other as far as what programs they would present.. The differencee is in approach. Clinton is a bulldozer and Obama is nuanced.
Read the Obama presentation in the Chicago Sun-Times on his concerns about his church and his pastor.He rejects categorically the comments without rejecting the pastor as a positive influence. He feels sorry for the media attention brought upon his church and he sees his church as an over all positive force in the community and laments how it is being characterized as extremist, With 8,000 membership it must have a huge presence in the community as well as having much influence.
I submit that most of the intolerance to religion is an intramural attack,but it’s easier to blame the ‘atheists’.
Parker The point is his opponents Faux News,AM radio ministers of propoganda-Limbaugh,Hannity, Mike Gallagher etc. have got nothing of substance on this guy so they have to make him out to be some sort of black panther to scare up some white votes. Fact is they see him winning white states-rural areas and they’re scared s***less that these potential voters are finally getting a clue and realizing who’s been screwing them the last seven years.
A few musings on a sunny Sunday..
1) the Repugs are gonna make this a dirty fight regardless which Dem wins, because they are desperate to win/ keep from losing everything. Never underestimate the hate that will radiate from Rove and Co.
2) Obama came to Plainfield, cause it causes the least stress on an overflowing city.. close to the airport, doesn’t get into the Big Ten stuff downtown with the fieldhouses.
3) He’ll likely be back several times, cause he knows that IN and NC will offset the PA bounce she’ll get. That means that IN WILL be in play for the nomination. Woe to repugs in the primaries.
4) O will help the down ticket races much more than Hillary, as the true right wing crazies will be frothing to vote for anything against Clinton.
5) I’ll wager the Bill will NOT be in Indiana… but rather used throughout KY/ WV/ PA to rally the troops.
and there are my comments for the day…
More Indiana visits from the Democrats are likely.
I heard that Hillary might be in NWI sometime this week — maybe Thursday. If that’s the case, look for Barack to make a visit to the area — maybe a stop at the steel mills which are doing pretty well despite the rest of the economy looking weak.
Doug –
Your metaphor is somewhat disturbing – but possibly not overblown in today’s political atmosphere. However, I support your second amendment right to protect yourself in the course of political discourse.
chuckcentral –
When you talk about “The point”, you obviously seek only to make your own, rather than to understand anyone else’s. I would clarify it for you, but then how would you learn?
Parker I think I’ll use Chuck Schumer’s words. Paraphrasing “I don’t cast aspersions on Senator Obama for what somebody else said. We’ll be in a game here where we never debate the issues”
I for one am tired of this media driven game playing. It is clearly obvious to all but the knuckleheads who dig this sort of gotcha game that Obama does not agree with his reverends’ extreme rhetoric. He’s distanced himself from it in the past and he’s repudiating it now. What does any of this BS have to do with the very serious clean up of the mess this country is in. I prefer not to “learn” from knuckleheads.
May I add one thing? If we look at what Obama said in Plainfield,he comes through as a religious man.He talked about fighting the demons left by the legacy of race. And the Reverend Wright led him to Jesus.
It’s all so similar to the Evangelical Christian rhetoric in the White churches except demons are attributed to sex rather than race.
Also the new reverend,taking Wright’s place,preached a sermon condemning attacks on his church by people who don’t understand. Certainly any of the conservative Christians who have been so vocal in the defense of Christianity in America must recognize this frame of reference because they’ve also seen their chruch attacked by others ‘who don’t understand’.
This debate is by no means over, and that may even bode well for Obama,because the dialogue is now on a level of Christianity being attacked and that already is a familiar theme, only with race added in. From a strictly academic perspective it’s a fascinating chance for us all to get some insights into religion and race in America,but so many people won’t want to see this argument framed academically,because it will squelch their agenda..
Obama has a chance of bridging a great divide ,because he has lived on both sides of the culture ,understands both Black and White cultural thinking from a religious perspective,along with understanding the gift our secular Constitutional government is for our nation.
Reverend Wright stepped over the walls of his own church and secularized his message for those who didn’t want to hear it,and couldn’t understand it. But that’s the way religious references are and that’s why religion is so divisive. We have to wait and see whether it’s going to be all preaching with no listening,and both sides insisting on staying outraged. How Obama handles this is of utmost importance,and it won’t be easy,but he may just bridge the gap,if given the chance.
I have been losing a great deal of respect for Hillary Clinton.She wants to change agreed on rules to her own advanantage,and she has been making the case for these changes as if it’s a matter of common sense and completely fair.What kind of president would she make if agreements that become inconvenient are simply brushed aside by expediency? ..Isn’t that what we have now?
I’ve followed the Wright controversy very heavily over the last few days. Among other things, I saw the Hannity interview with Wright from 2007.
Take the racist rhetoric away, and Wright is a pretty standard liberation theologist. Being as Obama has been a member of this church for over 20 years, I think that this just confirms that Obama is a leftist himself, which jibes with his voting record in the Illinois Senate as well as the US Senate.
Combine this with Michelle Obama’s America-hating and other comments, and the leftist characterization is further confirmed.
I think that a hard core leftwinger is exactly what the electorate is looking for this cycle. I think guys like Hannity and Limbaugh will get their ratings with the Wright controversy, but overall it will do nothing to stop Obama’s surge.
Michelle Obama = “America-hating” = “leftism”?
Sure, if “hatred” is an antonym for “pride”.
Only in classical conservative binary thinking does the statement that, “For the first time in my adult life, I am proud of my country” mean that the whole rest of the time she was filled with hatred for it. Just skip right over “disappointed” or even “ambivalent”, right to hatred.
I could construct something similar, such as Larry Craig = anonymous gay sex in bathrooms = conservatism.
Michelle Obama never said she hated America. I think you might have fallen into the 20 second snippet cut,paste,and spin cycle that passes for news these days. Particularly by the AM radio clowns.
I could construct something similar, such as Larry Craig = anonymous gay sex in bathrooms = conservatism.
Uh, leftists make such connections all the time. Mark Foley and Larry Craig are used as examples of latent, repressed homosexuality in Republicans by leftists all the time.
Considering that I’ve blogged about Michelle Obama on a number of occasions, please don’t imply that I’m ignorant of what she actually said.
I reference a few quotes there. I wasn’t just relying on the one quote T referenced.
I haven’t blogged about Wright. Quite frankly, there is too much there to blog about! I don’t really wish to get into the nuts and bolts of these University of Chicago academics in the field of black liberation theology, which is where all of this is leading.
Guys like Hannity and Rush have just scratched the surface on the subject. Google “Dwight Hopkins” if you’re really interested. That is Obama’s mentor’s mentor.
But who is his mentor’s mentor’s mentor?
But who is his mentor’s mentor’s mentor?
If you saw the Hannity interview of Jerimiah Wright from May ’07, you will see that Mr. Wright’s argument is that if you haven’t read Dwight Hopkins and Jim Cone, you are not worthy of debate.
Now, you could go to Amazon.com and pick up Hopkins’ books, but that would be quite a slog I think.
The more I hear Obama try to talk his way out of this, the more I think that he was a member of this church in name only. It was nothing more than a resume builder in the black community for a guy that really wasn’t from an authentic African American background.
Funny how he was never actually present when these things were said. Did he ever actually attend mass?
Certainly being present in name only isn’t fair grounds for attack on a candidate. Bush II and Reagan, for example, weren’t regular church attendees, and they got a pass.
I think he was in the Senate when the most recent comments took place.
Sorry I missed the Hannity interview of a crazy black preacher. Either my dislike of Hannity, or my atheism, might have interfered. I really should set aside more time to watch two crazy asses chatting.
It’s common for people to “belong to” a church, and yet not regularly attend. People get busy. Or often when a preacher starts going off the deep end, or exploring other options, or different groups within the church start asserting themselves, attendance waxes or wanes. This phenomenon is pretty common in Lutheran churches, where it seems the pastor is frequently in a particular location for a limited time before getting called to a bigger church early in his career, or going in the opposite direction later in life. I recall during those times that I witnessed significant effects on attendance.
A lot of people feel the need to belong to a church to cover themselves/gain entry into the afterlife–but just don’t want to put the time in that is required to be a regular churchgoer. I guess this arrangement helps them feel better.
I was raised Presbyterian. Our family was somewhat active in the church. I was an acolyte — mainly because I got to play with fire and light the candles, then got to go sit on a pew with a buddy rather than sitting with my folks. My Dad was a deacon. Then my folks got into some sort of squabble with the minister, and we just kind of stopped going.
With that whole “render unto Caesar” thing in the Bible, I think bifurcation between religious and political is pretty well founded in Christianity. I don’t think it’s out of line for Obama to say, “You know, I went for the Jesus; not for the politics.” Unless, of course, you’re just looking for excuses to dislike Obama.
So T, you’re admitadly willfully ignorant of who Wright is and his relationship with Obama, yet you come up with excuse after excuse why Obama’s relationship with this guy is no big deal?
Is that a good example of cognitive dissonance?
I don’t think that you care, but here is an early ’07 article from Rolling Stone about Obama that mentions Wright:
Fact number one: We’ve got more black men in prison than there are in college,” he intones. “Fact number two: Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run!” There is thumping applause; Wright has a cadence and power that make Obama sound like John Kerry. Now the reverend begins to preach. “We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional KILLERS. . . . We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God. . . . We conducted radiation experiments on our own people. . . . We care nothing about human life if the ends justify the means!” The crowd whoops and amens as Wright builds to his climax: “And. And. And! GAWD! Has GOT! To be SICK! OF THIS S***!”
This is as openly radical a background as any significant American political figure has ever emerged from, as much Malcolm X as Martin Luther King Jr. Wright is not an incidental figure in Obama’s life, or his politics. The senator “affirmed” his Christian faith in this church; he uses Wright as a “sounding board” to “make sure I’m not losing myself in the hype and hoopla.” Both the title of Obama’s second book, The Audacity of Hope, and the theme for his keynote address at the Democratic National Convention in 2004 come from Wright’s sermons. “If you want to understand where Barack gets his feeling and rhetoric from,” says the Rev. Jim Wallis, a leader of the religious left, “just look at Jeremiah Wright.”
I think I gave excuse after excuse for why he might not have been in the pew during some of the comments. That is all.
Forgive me for not paying enough attention to the threat the black man poses to me. I mean, that’s the point, right? Scary black guy is saying his radical, scary black talk. I’m just wondering what I have to fear or be concerned about from all of that. I mean, right now we have a “compassionate” white guy, and the place couldn’t be more messed up.
This just has a “Reefer Madness” vibe to it, with some Ward Churchill mania-quality “concern” thrown in. A preacher says delusional, angry, paranoid, or otherwise inappropriate things? Uh huh. History’s filled with those guys.
Good thing radical preacher guy didn’t go tossing around tables with money on them in some other folks’ church right before a big holiday.
Yeah…they might just crucify him!
Dude, what the hell are you talking about? Scary black guy? That has nothing to do with anything.
Here’s the problem as I see it. Obama is running as a post racial candidate, as a racial healer. Yet, by belonging to this church and being mentored by this pastor, he proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that he buys into these racial greivances.
So he’s not a post racial candidate. He’s really no different than Al Sharpton.
At least Al Sharpton is honest about who he is. I respect that, and in fact am quite fond of the guy. I even voted for him for governor in New York (it was better than voting for Cuomo in the Democratic primary).