The Perry County News has an article on time zones. Perry County did not join with some neighboring counties, such as Dubois, in re-petitioning to switch from Central to the Eastern Time Zone. Instead, the Perry County Commissioners intend to see what happens with the other counties’ re-petition, then ask county residents what they would like to do about it.
Tri-Way Drive-In down Plymouth way is at it again.
Taking Down Words doing excellent work!
(Comment edited to embed link b/c URL length was causing problems. —Doug)
Taking Down Words missed one important point, and that is the owner of the Tri-Way Drive-In is also the founder of hoosiersforcentraltime.com. And if anyone has followed the comments I have made on this blog over the summer, don’t underestimate my resolve on this issue. As Yogi Berra used to say “its not over till its over.”
In case people don’t remember how their legislator voted on daylight savings time or the toll road lease, hoosiersforcentraltime.com has all that information posted on their front page.
David Kinney,hope you are right!Our counties down here in Southwest Indiana that have chose to repetition did so with a extremely faulty document the Ice Miller prepared petition.Unemployment in the counties is down,economic developement is continuing which many of us who support Central time have pointed out in rebuttal petitions to the DOT,Kimball in Dubois county is having one of their best years,Holiday World in Spencer county one of the largest amusementparks in the state has announced a 4.5 million dollar expansion and a record attendance this year of one million visitors.New clean coal power plant in Edwardsport to be built the list goes on and on.
I thought the DOT would have announced their decision on our counties by now but Doug said he thought it might be after the elections in order to help the Governor or something like that.
In our area I believe Dave Crooks will win who as you know wanted a referendum on the issue but the Republicans in the House would not let it be voted on.I also believe Kreg Battles will defeat Troy Woodruff he also is in agreement with Crooks on the referendum idea.
Phillip,
I think once the people have a chance to voice their opinion in this election (and believe me I have talked to alot of people), their will be a whole different perspective on the time zone issue. But in order for this to happen, everyone needs to get out and vote.
We cannot let our lives be dictated by big business. People run businesses, not businesses run people. I hope and pray that the DOT leaves the situation as is in your area, but fear that the long arm of Governor Daniels will do the same thing in your area that he did up here in northern Indiana, where St. Joseph, Marshall, Fulton, Cass, White,Carroll and Benton counties (the outer perimeter of those counties around Chicago) were denied central time, not by the DOT, but by Governor Daniels who broke the law (Ind. Code 1-1-8.1-3: The state supports the county executives of any county that seeks to change the time zone in which the county is located under the procedures established by federal law).
Waking up in the dark morning after morning is ridiculous. Seasonal Affective Disorder sufferers are probably at their wits end, and the winter season hasn’t even begun yet. I’ll predict the ISTEP scores will be down at least 30 points as a result of sleep hangovers (prolonged sleep deprivation) as a result of delayed summer sunsets. And what about worker productivity ? Could there be any validity to Michigan’s economic problems being tied to Eastern Daylight Savings Time.
Let’s hope the insanity in our state right now is rectified after this election, and then finish business in November 2008.
David Kinney,we always vote and in regard to state Rep it will be for Crooks.I believe you are right about the long arm of Governor Daniels seeing that the counties go back to Eastern but I hope not.I am also aware of your statement where the state is always supposed to support the local decision on time zones.The problem with this is that the Governor picks and chooses which counties he wants to support then when he disagrees with a county as in the ST Joseph county situation he adds the phrase the state supports the county unless it divides a natural region or economic area or some mumbo jumbo such as that.
He`s had so many positions on the subject of time zones they are hard to keep track of.This blog has pointed out the flip flops of these positions quite well.There were no assumptions by any counties in Southwest Indiana about other counties in the area going Central and the being denied as the Governor stated in his latest letter to the DOT.The only counties in our area that were denied Central were Sullivan and Lawrence which are not considered part of Southwest Indiana and no commissioners from our group of counties spoke as wanting to be on the same time as these two counties at the DOT Jasper hearing.The DOT and Judy Kaleta know this but it will probably make no difference.
I can just hear the Eastern time supporters from our counties now (and there isn`t that many believe me)in two weeks crying about the early sunsets.I`m sure there will be a few letters to the editor about it in the paper plus we`ll have a full media blitz from the Terre Haute Tv stations (we get news mainly from 4 channels 2 from Terre Haute and two from Evansville).The Terre Haute stations are biased a little wanting us on Eastern time where as the Evansville stations will simply remind everyone to move their clocks.By the Terre Haute stations being biased I mean they`ll go interview commissioners asking about the petition to move back to Eastern time and probably go talk to out of county Crane workers from the Eastern time zone telling of their hardships I say this because they have done it in the past and never once ask any of these people how it might burden someone from my county(Martin) if the county switched back to Eastern.I know it`s coming.
It still humors me that so many people will not let such a trivial issue drop. We are not talking about life or death here. It is a mere time zone, that if you really do not like, then you have the oppurtunity to move, even within the state, and observe that of your wishes. As for Seasonal Affective Disorder sufferers, I am one. I cannot talk for everyone, but I am used to being a little slower in the mornings. I have never had a problem walking around in the morning, getting ready, and driving to school or work not in the best of moods. However, I am almost immediately affected in the same regards the moment that sun hits the horizon in the evening. Give me an hour of darkness, and I am back to the slumbering, many times grumpy, man I am in the morning. I do not care if I am dealing with the ‘no-sunlight’ woes in the morning, because I am enjoying not having to face them so early in the evening. By the time I am at work or class in the morning, the sun is out or putting off enough light, that I can start to begin functioning. It has been really nice to enjoy evening sunsets now in October with the nice, autumn weather. It is much better than it being dark at dinner time. The winter is already depressing enough when the work day is done, and I am already wanting to head to bed because darkness is looming. Under CT, I would be in bed mentally before five o’clock ever arrives. Mark me down as one SAD sufferer who finds more positives in EDT/EST than would in CDT/CST. Secondly, I do not think Michigan’s economic woes have anything to do with productivity losses due to EDT. Michigan has been on EDT for 40 years now. People in Canada and Alaska live with much more awkward hours of light and darkness than we in Indiana could ever imagine. I believe Michigan’s economic woes are directly tied to the American Automotive Industry that is facing potentially fatal times due to their lack of innovation and poor management and marketing decisions, as well as the Unions. EDT has nothing to do with Michigan’s problems. Indiana seems to be doing fine in recruiting large industrial jobs in the Eastern Time Zone. I think we are in line for almost 4000 new industrial jobs by 2010. I really believe in the next year, the time zone issue is going to be exposed as an issue only for a loud minority, but rather it is a silent majority who really does not see it as a pressing issue that needs time in front of our governing authorities.
Holiday World didn’t announce an expansion due to any benefits from Central Time. The expansion they are doing this year is part of a multiyear expansion announced several years ago. Also, their attendance is up this year, but it has been increasing every year since they started adding new attractions.
T,
You make a valid point about Holiday World and indeed there expansion may have already been in the works.My point is the doom and gloom Eastern time crowd say everything will suffer on Central time which the facts are showing clearly are not the case that`s my point.
I think economically time zone makes no difference it`s the Eastern time crowd down here that say we are all dommed if we remain in the Central time zone(a time zone we have been in line with almost 7 months a year for over thirty years).Many of us just point out with all the things I mentioned in the above post as far as the economies of the counties and economic development this simply is not true.
Holiday World spoke at the DOT Jasper hearing in strong support of Central time this is why in the new joint petition under recreation this amusement park is not mentioned!
The main issue will always be the dividing line between Eastern and Central as far as where you live and work.No one wants to live in one time zone and work in another.
Josh
Sorry to disagree with you on Seasonal Affective Disorder, but the primary cause of SAD is morning darkness supported by Dr. David Avery’s 15 years of research (University of Washington). Evening darkness has nothing to do with it.
When the wishes of the people are blocked by politicians who are on the side of big business, I have an issue with that. And if the politicians are so convinced this is not a heated issue, use the expression “put your money where your mouth is.” In other words, put the time zone issue to a vote and let the people decide. All the polls that were conducted last year showed that the majority of hoosiers in every part of the state preferred central time.
The other issue pertaining to the time issue is children waiting for the school bus in the morning dark eight months out of the year. Now people are going to say what they did last year, and say that is simply not true. But right from the start of school in the middle of August, it was dark at 7:00 in the morning. An NHTSA National Center for Statistics and Analysis study in 2004 found 19% of all children between the ages of 5 and 9 who were killed in traffic crashes in 2004 were pedestrians. 14% of pedestrian fatalities in 2004 occurred between 4 AM and 7:59 AM on a weekday.
The option to move because of political manipulation on the time zone issue is: #1 inexcusable, because the wishes of the people are not being recognized. If we let the time zone issue fall by the wayside, the next year it will be another issue, and so on. Also #2. I own three businesses that make moving impossible. I have invested 21 years of my life building these businesses up, and to let any politician pull the rug out from underneath me, it not going to happen. I live right on the time zone boundary, and if Governor Daniels would have been smart, he would have respected the wishes of the people in St. Joseph, Marshall, Fulton,Cass, Carroll, White and Benton Counties. But he didn’t, so the fight will continue till this wrong is made right.
And if you think that Eastern daylight savings time had anything to do with all these so-called new jobs, there were alot of other variables that played an important part in those developments. And what about Sysco Corp. building its new warehouse in Starke County in the Central time zone.
The fight has only just begun, and will see what transpires after the election.
I am sorry to disagree with you but 15 years of research does not mean anything to someone who suffers from the affects. It does not matter what the clock says, darkness is darkness. I have just as much trouble with morning darkness as I do with evening darkness. No sun = sudden mood changes. It is really a simple formula.
Secondly, all the polls that you talk about were heavily influenced by you if I remember right. I could have easily done a poll that would have shown a convincing margin for Eastern Time. I do remember the Indystar polls showing Eastern Time until it was posted on your website. Also, I do recall Fort Wayne’s poll being clearly for Eastern Time as well. Also, what about all the businesses that have made their minds known in local Chamber’s polls. Also, I have read very few letters pouring in to newspapers in regards to hating EDT. I have seen just as many praising the decision as I have against the decision. (In my local newspaper and in the Indianapolis Star). I think the silence proves a much larger point. It seems everyone always forgets about the silent people when a few, loud and obnoxious people cannot keep quiet.
Josh ,tell all the families here in Southwestern Indiana about how little they care about the issue when they get off work at 5;00pm in a Central time zone county and it would already be 6:00pm at their homes in the Eastern time zone by the time some of them drive home it would already be after 7:00pm when they get home to their families!
My relatives work at Crane in Martin county but live in Sullivan county and this is a big deal to them.If Martin county switches back to Eastern this will solve their problem but shift it to a bunch of other work commuters from Martin county and the other counties of Southwestern Indiana petitioning to go back to Eastern especially if all the petitions are not granted.So yes it is a big deal to these people and their families who this mess causes a burden on.This is why it is being mentioned in ads by Crooks and Battles running for state Reps in this area and why they will win these races.
If you are happy with Eastern time I`m happy for you.I just happen to disagree but I respect your opinion.I do not know where you live but as far as the INDY Star is concerned the reason they feel everything is fine is because Indianapolis is not near any time zone border the way the counties in Northwest and Southwest Indiana are which causes hardships for people and their families.
Phillip, I never meant to belittle those in Southwest Indiana. I understand that it is an issue with many people down there, or else their would not be another petition to be considered with the USDOT. The issue is not pressing to most Hoosiers in the rest of the state. (Except possibly Pulaski where it appears the residents clearly want Eastern Time) I was more or less commenting on some individuals who have seemed to regress into a whining attitude like that of a child, who will continue to cry and fuss until it goes their way. The only reason we are still hearing about it from an obnoxious minority in this area is because Democrats like beating a dead horse to gain ground in November.
Josh:
The poll that was conducted and posted on hoosiersforcentraltime.com, was conducted by an independent company who does polling (i.e political polling) on a regular basis. Therefore there are no outside influences affecting the outcome. Those so called chamber polls are subjective and only protrays what the chamber wants. And if your talking about the Indiana Chamber of Commerce, Kevin Brenniger is an clueless idiot. I disproved almost everyone one of his claims on the DOT docket about energy savings, reduced crime, childrens’ safety, etc. And the reason you don’t hear about the disgruntled hoosiers regarding daylight savings time is because that news is being suppressed by the media. Why does the newspapers and the Indiana Braodcasting Corporation want to open up a can of worms that they fought hard for for 35 years, to have it reversed. Case in point, I was interviewed by Mark Augustino of the South Bend Tribune 3 weeks ago about the effects of daylight savings time on the drive-in theatre business. When I told him that my business was down 30 %, he couldn’t believe it. I told him I received countless e-mails from parents who stated that 9:30 was too late for their children to see a movie. Guess what! Because the story didn’t fit into what the media wanted ( i.e. drive-in theatres unaffected by daylight savings time),the story never ran. And that is just one instance that I personally know of. How many other stories out their have also been supressed by the news media.
As for not seeing any stories on daylight savings time or the time zone issue in Indianapolis or Fort Wayne, these two cities are the people that pushed this whole thing thru between Rep. Torr, Rep. Borror, Senator Long, and others. But guess what. Indiana is made up of more cities and more people than just Fort Wayne and Indianapolis. The entire state should be on one time (i.e. central time), since the entire state lies geographically in one time zone (central time). I can see Ohio and Michigan being split on time zones, since the line goes right down the middle of Ohio. But Ohio got smart and decided to put the entire state on one time. Indiana should do the same, but our sphere of commerce influence is with Chicago, not New York. And if you claim the DOT found otherwise, the whole process was rigged. I was at every daylight savings time hearing in Indianapolis, I was at the time zone hearing in South Bend, and with my years of teaching at the university level, I can tell with certainty that the whole situation didn’t add up. There were too many inconsistencies, too many irregularities, to say that hoosiers should be on Eastern daylight time.
As for your disregard for Dr. Avery’s research, I found that pretty disrespectful, considering I did research myself for many years and took great care in making sure my research was valid. Maybe your taking the
President Bush approach in disputing the research done by John Hopkins University on the number of people killed in Iraq. I’ll believe the John Hopkins data before I’ll believe President Bush. I think in your case Josh, unless you have had it specifically diagnosed, you may be suffering from some other ailment such as attention deficit disorder (which will make you tired alot as an adult). Go see a doctor to have a specific disagnosis.
The final voice will be by the people of Indiana in November. Power to the people.
Just a warning for everyone visiting hoosiersforcentraltime.com, the site tried to download a virus or worm to three of my computer files this afternoon. My anti-virus blocked them. I do feel sad for the people stradling the time line, but I am glad we have DST & I will vote against anyone who voted again’st DST! I know who they were. Most citizens outside of NW & SW areas are no longer concerned with this issue since most people are happy with EDT. Has everyone visited the site: http://www.centraltimestinks.com
I believe many polls taken on time zones may have been tainted by the Central Time folks (tipped off by hoosiersforcentaltime) voting enough times to change results to their favor, like the WRTV poll I monitored.
Good evening all, you all have some really good comments, I no longer live in Indiana and won’t be eligible to vote on the upcoming midterm elections in Indiana, although there is plenty of rhetoric on both sides in the 3rd Congressional District here in Kentucky, between Anne Northup and John Yarmuth, the challenger. Time zones aren’t an issue here. Northup and Yarmuth had a debate last night on WAVE TV (channel 3 in Louisville, the local NBC affiliate), and sparred on issues such as the war in Iraq, social security, and other issues.
Richard,thank you for at least understanding the situation facing people bordering the time zone dividing line in Northwest and Southwest Indiana many Eastern (DST) supporters do not.
As you can imagine if you live in one of these parts of the state no one is going to jump at the chance to vote for someone like Troy Woodruff in District 64 who`s one vote passed DST and on the other hand will vote for Dave Crooks in my District 63 who voted against DST because he saw this mess coming to our part of the state if DST passed which now that we have DST we have a mess down here.
Since you like DST and Eastern time and it is a plus for you that`s fine and I can see why you would not vote for anyone who voted against DST.I guess we will see November 7th how this all shakes out as far as who gets elected and who doesn`t.I think the Democrats are going to take control of the Indiana House and Crooks and Battles running in Districts 63 and 64 against DST and tolls for our part of I-69 when it is built while no tolls for the Martinsville to Indy section will win but that`s just pure speculation.I guess we will see!
Wouldn’t just going back to the old way be the best way to handle this, rather than having half of the people obnoxiously happy, and the other half completely pissed off? For me personally, being on Central this winter is going to suck royally. I work six day per week, roughly from 6 a.m. to 5 or so, so I will see the sun on Sundays only, for the whole winter. Previously I would have an hour or so of daylight in the evening. Might as well move to Alaska.
T,
Going back to Eastern Standard time (the old way) is fine with me.With Eastern Standard we get later sunsets in the fall and winter and in the summer we don`t have to have light at 10:00pm which is what we would have here on Eastern Daylight time.Plus the commuters who go to the original Central time zone counties to the South are only on a different time around 5 months out of the year not 12 months a year like it will be if we go to Eastern Daylight time.
I visited that central time stinks website, and found that alot on that site actually supports central time in those counties that requested it.The Cellular market areas of St. Joseph and Marshall Counties are the same, and separate from that of Elkhart county. The same applies to the basic trading area that St. Joseph, Marshall, Fulton and Starke counties are in that same market (all these couties requested central time). The Meridian time line shows that Indiana, unlike any other state (look at the graph yourself) lies entirely within the central time zone. His graphs to illustrate when sunrise and sunset occurs is strange at best, although just slightly better than what the Indiana Chamber of Commerce submitted to the DOT (see graphs on hoosiersforcentraltime.com done by a researcher, not a novice). The one quote that was taken directly from hoosiersforcentraltime.com was taken toally out of context. He makes the statement that between March 11th and April 1st sunrise will be at or before 7AM-so it isn’t 8 complete months. But lets be real, its closest enough, and hasn’t it been said that the most dangerous time for accidents is when the sun first comes up in the morning or goes down in the evening. There are other glaring mistakes
in this website as well, but I won’t burden everyone with my detailed analysis. Next thing you know , this Elkhart person is going to refute the statistics of the 2004 NHTSA study of child pedestrian fatalities in the morning. By the way, hoosiersforcentraltime.com is working on the problem with their website, and will have the problem corrected ASAP. As I had mentioned before, big business had their chance thru manipulation of the legislators (via the governor) to voice their opinion, now the people without being suppressed by the media get their opporunity to voice theirs.
I attended all three daylight savings time meetings in Indianapolis, as well as the DOT hearing in South Bend, so I am fully aware of the governmental arm twisting that took place. Can the author of that other website make the same claim ? The people didn’t want daylight savings time before, and from the e-mails I’m receiving, still don’t want it. November 7 will tell the tale.
David Kinney,
A new entry on the DOT docket by Kimball International from Dubois county for Eastern time is almost laughable.This year Kimball International has experienced two of it`s best quarters in 5 years while operating on Central time and as I like to often point out this is the time zone they have been in line with almost 7 months a year for over thirty years!Many people from Dubois county in the past few months have expressed their desire to remain on Central time on the DOT docket at least 80% of the entries from Dubois county are for remaining on Central time.
I also remember a newspaper article last year right after the final ruling on time zones came out and Dubois county was granted Central time a spokesman for Kimball stated they prefered Eastern but it really didn`t matter they wern`t going anywhere.(leaving Dubois county).
Look there is no evidence around Southwest Indiana that businesses or the economies are being hurt.Many of us who support Central time have documented time and time again examples of economic development businesses thriving and expanding you name it but the Chamber of Commerce wants Eastern time and that`s that!
Now I have no problems with the people from my group of counties that want Eastern they live here and pay taxes so if that`s what they want more power to them but this bad for business argument just simply isn`t true and we have proven it.So they at least need a new argument such as commuting problems or they want more light at the end of the day something because the bad for business argument doesn`t hold water.
Are there inconvenences?Yes,but no matter what time zone we end up in somebody is going to have time problems.The rebuttal petitions that probably will not be read by the DOT are far better than the Ice Miller petition submitted by the counties.This document has not one but three outright lies contained in it.I understand them having to be use creative means to make their case for the counties like making columns and showing everything in them will be Eastern if the petition is granted of course all these thing have the fact that they are currently on Central time at present time but tht`s another story but the three lies relly got me.POOR RESEARCH!The three things that I`m speaking of are not even debateable they are simply not true!
The sad part of it is some commissioners(not all) signed this document without reading it.We have gotten rid of our flip flop commissioner last May the other one who wanted Eastern is not running this year but we`ll vote him out next round.
November 7 will tell the tale and like I have stated look for Battles and Crooks to win down here running against DST and the toll road lease among other things.
The Feds are the problem. When the Feds get involved, that is when things fall apart. There were commissions in 17 counties that made requests to switch to the Central timezone. The Department of Transportation should not have interfered with any of these requests, just rubberstamped them. If it did happen this way, there would be a lot less debate.
Well, don’t forget. Governor Daniels fought on behalf of Elkhart County to get the Feds to reject the petition of St. Joseph County. So, it’s not all the fault of the USDOT.
That is true about Governor Daniels sharing some blame. He should have persuaded Elkhart County to be included in the commissions. As much as I do not like DOT being involved, they too should have had the foresight to include Elkhart County.
The DOT isn’t unwilling to move an area from one time zone to another. My impression is that all it ask is that the request be rational, and that there be reasonable consensus in favor of the move. The DOT is also trying to give effect to Indiana policy that local executives are to be supported in determining the best time zone for their county, even though they are under no obligation to do so.
The DOT was fully satisfied that St. Joseph County’s request was rational. It just wasn’t convinced that a consensus was present. Given how rushed the requests were last year, and that the DOT was handling petitions from 17 counties, when their usual load is one county every other year, and that the Governor and Indiana Chamber of Commerce were running all over the place blowing smoke to obfuscate things, I wouldn’t say the DOT did a bad job. If Central Time is what St. Joseph County’s leadership wants though it cannot worry about Elkhart County. It just needs to make clear that CT would be good for St. Joseph County even if that means risking putting the time line between St. Joseph and Elkhart Counties. Any other stance gives Elkhart County a veto.