Martin County had a meeting earlier this week populated mainly by people disgruntled by the coming move from the Eastern Time Zone to the Central Time Zone. That is of some interest, but the line coming out of the Governor’s office is breathtaking (at least to a guy like me who has been following the time issue fairly closely):
Gov. Mitch Daniels’ office, besides taking the heat from local residents for what they consider forcing each county to make these decisions, has stated in the past, and reiterated this morning, that the administration will back counties regardless of which zone they choose. From the beginning the governor has said local leaders and residents should have the opportunity to decide for themselves the time zone they prefer, and that is why he didn’t try to make decisions for the entire state, according to Jane Jankowski, Daniels’ spokesperson. “The governor has said he will support county petitions unless that preference conflicts with the need to keep an economic and social region together,†Jankowski said.
Nevermind that the “economic and social region” exception was crafted ex post facto and is, in fact, against the law. The need for a time zone solution that best suits regions and not merely counties is exactly why time zone decisions needed to be tackled at a state level and why Governor Daniels’ failure to address the issue head-on has made a hash of the entire process.
But, back to Martin County. They have a bunch of citizens who didn’t show up for any meetings last summer and fall who are upset at the decisions made at those meetings. The hearings attracted fewer than 70 residents and a slim majority preferred Central Time, so that’s what the Commissioners petitioned for.
Now that Martin wants to switch back, the council and commissioners have drafted a resolution calling for neighboring counties to revisit the issue, too.
“We almost need to be together on this thing, and it’s unfortunate that this will create so much havoc and confusion,†said Jim Truelove, a Daviess County Commissioner. “But whatever we do, we need to go together or stay the same as a region, and since Martin County has drafted this resolution for other counties,
I’m sure we’ll address it — well, I would say we’ll be forced to revisit it.â€As did the hundreds who showed up for last night’s
meeting, many blaming themselves for being too lazy to show up for the previous hearings, and assuming the commissioners would naturally opt to remain on Eastern time.
They’re right — time zones need to be coordinated at a level broader than the county level. I think the state should have one time zone, with my preference being for Central. But certainly regional coordination is better than the disjointed county-by-county approach we got when the Governor and General Assembly did only half their job, voting for Daylight Saving Time without addressing the inseparable time zone issue.
The passion coupled with lack of consensus is incredible! If I spoke for USDOT to anyone wanting a time zone change at this point, I would say ‘leave it as is for at least a year and see what you feel then.’
Perhaps it’s becasue I’m not a full time state resident, but I have never understood the argument that DST has to be tied to time zone.How is Indiana different? DST is in effect when daylight is relatively long,and the negative seems to be that sunrises are very late in winter.Sunrises will continue to be the same time in winter as they have always been, unless the issue is the last week of October when morning sunrise is a few minutes later than in January. A few people mentioned not liking abnormally long light evenings in summer, but for most people ,with good summer weather,sunlight late would seem to be a positive.Even in March DST in 2007 at Indiana latitude the latest sunrise on DST will be no later than it was in January,so that isn’t an issue.Also the county by county approach to time zone shift would have worked had it been only to give a few counties on the time border an opportunity to reposition. It was never intended to realign all of Indiana into Central Time,and many are frustrated because it didnt. Moving time zone boundaries is a whole different matter and perhaps can be addressed more effectively when emotions cool.It’s been a very compelling issue because I have been traveling in and out of Indiana since I was a little kid and what time it is has always been an issue when crossing into the state.
The counties orginally on CT(before the current realignment) made no attempt to consider ET,although they could have, and that means there is no serious sentiment in Lake or Vanderburg counties.etc. to go to ET.But any other county would already be on CT if they had significant interest and the fact that suddenly we have DST should make no difference whatsoever.Perhaps Starke county is an exception here as they have been petitioning for decades.
What is VERY startling is that Martin and now Daviess counties are reconsidering CT. Looking at map it would seem that CT would be the obvious choice ,as part of Evansville area. There’s evidently more too this than just the crane naval center wanting ET.
Thanks so much to this blog for keeping up with time issue and being equally thorough with all Indiana issues.
The late sunrises are an issue. The latest sunrises in winter run from about the Winter solstice to mid-January. Much of the period, though not all, occurs during Christmas vacation from schools, but the late sunrises in mid March and particulalry in early November (after DST extension goes into effect in 2007), will not occur during vacation periods. The danger period posed by late sunrises is longer. In addition, while we “ease” into the mid winter late sunrises, the mid March late sunrises will have more of a shock effect. People will be driving under vastly different conditions than they had adjusted to during late February and early March.
It has to do with the fact that, functionally, Indiana has spent 7 months in one time zone and 5 months in the other time zone for the past 30 years. 7 months on Central Time and 5 months on Eastern Time.
Adopting Daylight Saving Time had the effect of moving Indiana into Eastern Time for 12 months out of the year instead of 5. But there was no policy debate in the legislature about whether that was the proper time zone for Indiana. There was sort of this vague notion that they’d work the time zone issue out later or the USDOT would hold statewide hearings and work out the best time zone solution. None of that happened.
Is the whole legislature ready for a statewide debate on time? Many legislators will be ruined because they’ll alienate at least 40% if they please the other 60%,and there are other issues besides .The only safe position is to advocate CT in Evansville or in Gary.
Everyone has a favorite time zone but they want everyone else to also adapt that time.I understand much better why perpetual eastern standard time was adopted,but Indiana won’t go back to that after having such a fight doing away with it. I actually see NO solution except just leave things basically as they are now.But I’ve been consistantly wrong, so I’ll follow the process as it develops.I may be living in Indianapolis by this time next year and I just hope I dont have to cross any time zone line unless I go a long ways!ET or CT OK for me,but I have no idea what the consensus is statewide.
The problem is that they already effectively made the decision without debate or consideration. They should have voted on a time zone and on DST or not and lived with the result. Hiding the ball on the time zone issue was dishonest, and they deserve what they get from the resulting mess, even if Hoosiers don’t deserve it.
yes ,now it makes sense why DST and time zone should have been one big issue. No one in elected office will deal with either again.It’s over!
Paul and Doug have articulately stated how the DST issue was thoroughly messed up by the governor and the state legislature.
Late sunrises do matter. The sun rises significantly later in Indiana than it does on the east coast. It also sets later, thus the gain in the evening sunlight provided by DST is not all that beneficial. I don’t need to be out working in my garden at 9:00 p.m.
As for counties already being on Central Time if there had been an interest, well a county cannot just decide to go on central time. It has to petition the US Dept. of Transportation. In my county, the commissioners are lazier than sloths. Despite the fact that most people here liked being on EST/CDT for seven months of the year (we actually liked being an hour behind Ohio), the county commissioners have done nothing since the law was passed last year. They said they wanted to wait and see what others did. As the DST vote from last year shows, elected representatives don’t always follow the will of their constituents.
One tack might be building a regional consensus among county commissioners to petition as a group of counties.It may take several years,but success depends on understanding the system and making it work for your self-interest,and never letting an issue die. And county commissioners seem to be the FIRST line of democracy in Indiana.
Lou:
You make an excellent point about county commissioners trying to get a regional consensus. I cannot speak for other parts of Indiana, but here, the commissioners barely care what their own constituents think, let alone take the initiative to see what might work for the region.
I suspect that since Indianapolis appears to want Eastern Time, the commissioners here were not going to petition the USDOT for Central Time. (Plus, as I mentioned above, the commissioners here are pretty lazy) Much as many people here liked being on the equivalent of CDT for seven months each year, it would not make sense for us to be in the Central Time Zone and for Indianapolis to be in the Eastern Time Zone, since we are on the eastern border of Indiana. In effect, what Indianapolis wanted dictated what my county will have to live with.
Of course, that reinforces Doug’s argument that the DST statute should have included provisions about what time zone(s) Indiana would be in. County by county petitions and counties doing whatever Indianapolis did because they did not have much choice have created more confusion and hard feelings than were necessary.
yes, I cannot speak for others for certain,but the only people I know in Indiana are from Indianapolis,and CT is seen by many as ‘divisive’,so ET wins a majority by default. There’s a very strong lobby for ET,and I absolutely cannot see any govenor advocating AGAINST what the power lobbies in the state capital want. I would guess Daniels well- discussed flip-flop on CT time for whole state comments might be as a result of subsequent converations he had around the capital.That’s why realistically Indiana will probably stay basically as it is now, mostly ET and on DST.( But that doesnt mean CT advocates cant make things interesting)
Regarding Lou’s comments, I would observe that Daniels has, more than any governor that I can recall, engendered regional divisions in this state. We have long had the conflict between “the Region” and Indianapolis, but Daniels has all but thrown gasoline on that smoldering conflict. Until Mitch came along I had never seen an public opinion poll which gave a Governor a 52% approval rating in Indianapolis concurrently with a 30% approval rating in northern Indiana. Given the breadth of area covered by the term “northern Indiana” one can only imagine that Daniels’ approval rating in the toll road counties and along the time line are at best in the low 20’s. I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in teens in St. Joseph county. He has given “the Region” allies by pushing La Porte and St. Joseph County in their direction, and the Region is rock solid Central Time. The Time issue and the Toll Road could become the touch stones of the revived, expanded and increasingly animosity tinged regional divisions in this state.
In response to Paul: I live in a pretty solidly Republican county. It is difficult for the Democrats to get people to run for local office, let alone to win elective office. Nevertheless, some people I know who voted for Daniels regret it. They feel he has not lived up to his campaign promises about DST, nor do they like how he has railroaded other things through the legislature, has pushed for CAFO’s, etc. He’s seen as a friend to his friends–not as someone who has the interests of the state and its citizens at heart.
In response to Lou: It is hard for me to imagine that Daniels has conversations with anyone other than his business buddies about DST or anything else. :-) Someone probably told him to leave the time zone issue alone, as that was the only way to get the DST bill passed. Even then, it took strong-arm tactics and vote changes to get the bill through the legislature.
In addition to Pila: The governor’s actions relating to the BMV branches can hardly be seen to have been friendly to rural counties. I might have added that he has turned the countryside against the city as well as the north against the middle.
If the Democrats could mount decent candidate recruitment this election year (with a twist)could look a lot like (what I have read) 1958 was like. That was the year that then Indiana Republican Senator Bill Jenner advised Indiana Republicans to draw circles around the cities and not step foot in them. He thought the election could be won in the small towns and farms. In the event the Republicans were trounced. Daniels, Bosma and Torr seem intent on drawing a circle around Hamilton County and not stepping foot outside of it. Well perhaps the Republicans can win the election on the golf courses of Carmel and through the Hamilton County Chamber of Commerce, but I kind of doubt it.
A couple of BMV branches in my county were supposed to close. That really riled people up–no matter whether they had voted for Daniels or not. We have a state hospital here, and his plans for that have people pretty upset also. There is a lot of anti-Daniels sentiment.
People in my county are strange. They complain bitterly about the county gov’t, yet will turn around and vote for the same people over and over again. I could see some of them voting for Daniels in 2008–if he runs–even though they claim not to like him.
Ahh Wayne County. I miss the land of my youth. Home of Tom Raper, City of Roses, largest producer of school buses, high school for Jim Jones.
This has been an excellent summary of the different aspects of the time issue in Indiana,and there were a series of very good explanations tying things together. I hope others ,too,have a better overview of all the issues. I have been able to identify my own views of Indiana time as ‘typical of Indianapolis’ ( for what it’s worth.)
Things have changed a lot in Wayne County. There isn’t a Rose Festival anymore!:( Tom Raper sold his business–but it still goes by his name. No more school bus production here, either. I guess we’ll still be known as the having the Jim Jones connection, however. (If only we could get rid of that!)
I live in Martin county and was at the last time zone meeting which was attended by many out of county people who work at Crane from eastern time counties of Sullivan,Grenne,Monroe and Lawrence counties only 600 people from Martin county work at Crane where most of the base is located by the way the commissioners are foolish having these meetings after the decision has already been made by the DOT it just makes everyone mad you willnever know what people want from any county unless you can somehow put it on a ballot!