Norm Cox over at Capitol Watchblog responds to a post by Thomas about Daylight Saving Time.
The post is entitled “Time to Give It Up Already.” Honestly, I intended to let it rest, but I just can’t help myself when DST proponents are telling me to shut up. Probably a character flaw on my part, but whatever.
Cox responds to Thomas with these bullet points:
1. Maybe DST is an economic boon (or maybe not — it’s not clear whether Cox thinks it actually was or wasn’t or whether he agrees that the whole jobs thing was just a good marketing pretext); in any case, we just can’t tell because the economic situation is so bad even the power of DST couldn’t overcome it.
2. Don’t blame Gov. Daniels – 47 other states adopted it too!
3. Not having DST is “REALLY STUPID” (sic – allcaps).
My response at his blog:
Really, it’s time to give it up? But it wasn’t time to give it up for the decades in which DST proponents were defeated? Awfully convenient, don’t you think? (â€Ah yes,†comes the obvious response, “because DST proponents were right and its opponents were wrong.â€) Still, fair is fair and equal time and all that.
DST can’t overcome the horrible economic situation, I’ll concede. But is there any actual evidence that the job situation is better than it would have been because of DST? It was sold as a jobs bill, but I get the sense that was just convenient marketing and DST proponents usually advance it only half-heartedly anymore.
Really, for most Hoosiers, this boils down to personal preference: “I like later evenings better than I like earlier mornings.†But, plenty of folks would trade those 10 o’clock sunsets in mid-summer for 7 o’clock sunrises just about now.
As for synchronizing with the rest of the world, business and everyone else manages to coordinate things with Japan and Arizona and an array of different time zones. It just wasn’t that complicated when Indiana’s time remained as constant as the north star.
Ultimately, I concede, Indiana probably won’t change back. Maybe the U.S. will go off DST since it is actually less energy efficient than Standard Time. Or, maybe the U.S. will finish off the remaining 4 months of “Standard Time†and put us on year round DST. And, we’ll live. These 8 o’clock sunrises and periods of groggy adjustment are annoying but not life threatening. In the meantime, I don’t suppose many of us DST opponents will refrain from a bit of sleep-deprived grousing just because DST proponents suggest, “We finally won after decades of trying, now could everyone please shut up?â€
Somehow, I just get the feeling that the complaining is more about Eastern vs. Central time, rather than about DST itself. From that perspective, the complaintants certainly have some valid points.
Still, I get up and arrive at work in the dark no matter what Time Zone or “Time Saver” plan we adhere too. So, I much prefer the later light provided during the Daylight Savings period (even if the kids are still out playing an hour after I’m abed).
As to the comment that we get along fine without DST, I agree. Yet, people who don’t live here are confused twice a year over it. Standardizing ourselves is just being Hoosier polite, isn’t it?
Hoosier polite? You should have been their marketing guy, varangianguard. I could be persuaded by that.
Wow, well what if some of us think DST is “REALLY STUPID”. And blaming Gov. Daniels is perfectly reasonable since Indiana didn’t have DST until he showed up on the scene and expended an inordinate amount of political capital and energy to get us where we are today. Also, I was under the impression that DST was put in place when our economic situation was good and it still didn’t make a difference.
How many times do I have to explain that the passage/forceage? of DST would have been non-controversial if we would have been at least allowed to vote on which time zone we should be on. I’ll repeat. This was never about saving energy or getting us in “sync” with the other states. Why weren’t the utility companies opposed to DST if it saved customers money.They have known for a while that they actually stand to gain with DST. It was all about appeasing the lobbyists for Eastern time-plain and simple. Bottom line-Money rules.
Eastern Daylight Savings time cost Indiana $8.6 million dollars a year in extra electricity. That is a fact from the conclusive study done and published in February 2008. Think of the effects that extra cost has on businesses and the consumer. Eastern Daylight Savings time is a burden financially, physically and mentally
on hoosiers, and needs to be abolished. President Obama is well aware of the whole situation, and the clock is ticking. Remember Governor Daniels doesn’t have his buddy Bush in control anymore, and who controls the time zones?
We’ll gladly help welcome our errant brothers and sisters into the central time zone-and we promise to be gentle;-)
BTW I’ve been in this zone since 1992-and the changes never get any easier-probably because of spending my formative 23 years without changing.
The last few night the kids haven’t fallen asleep until after 9:30-10:00 and will be really bitchy in the morning when I force them out of bed…
David,
I’m curious about how much Obama knows about the situation. It sounds somewhat like fantasy,considering his plate is pretty full,but I’ve been thinking about writing him a fairly detailed letter explaining how this was shoved down our throats. I’m hoping that other people have gotten in touch with him. I think it could be easily shown how the DOT contradicted themselves repeatedly to appease Mitchie. It’s clear to me that the governor,congressman Upton, the Chamber of Commerce among others’ relationship with the DOT was THE deciding factor in determining Indianas’ time zone. Simple geography be damned.
Geography isn’t so simple. Look what simple geography has gotten us just from the Congress of Vienna to Versailles.
AJB,
LOL You can be gentle or rough. Just get me there. And I agree with you. Going back to non-observance of DST would be a perfect compromise but that appears to be the least likely outcome. Anything would be preferable to the illegitimate time that were on now. I still don’t change my clocks. I simply refuse to acknowledge Eastern time. Of course I can’t do anything about my work schedule.
Thank you! You are the only person that speaks as passionately about this topic as I do. Someday, should I ever decide to run and win a seat on the state legislature, I fully intend to put forth a bill revoking DST. Will it get defeated? Most likely. Do I care? Not really. If legislators can waste time on a bill giving Indiana a state pie (and sugar cream should NOT be it), then I would make it my mission to annoy the entire General Assembly with this recurring bill – year after year after year.
I’m in the “who cares” camp. Though I think its hilarious that “standard time” is now a shorter period that “savings time.”
If we truly cared about energy savings, we’d start conserving energy no matter what time of day it is. Using a time change as a way to conserve energy is just a cheap cop-out by folks who don’t want to actually tackle the hard issues.
Instead of worrying about what time of day it is, why not pump as much money as we can into Indiana building renewable energy and battery technology? Oh, wait, that would take some long term thought. Never mind.
My 6-year old daughter has been complaining to me about DST. She is really upset about going to bed with so much daylight.
She asked “Who makes this rule up, anyhow?” I explained that the federal government controls the time zones and the national observance of DST. If she was upset about it, she should write a letter to Congress. She did, handwritten on a small scrap of paper:
“Dear Daylight Saving Time people,
I really do not like daylight saving time. Please do something about this.
Love,
Lauren”
I helped her address it & walked to the mailbox with her in her jamies right before bed.
Watching the whole thing made me really glad to live in this country. While her request likely won’t make a difference, at least there is a system in place where Baron Hill can get a letter from a little girl in Indiana to know her feelings about a law that affects her. So many places in the world have no such system.
That’s awesome Jason. I love your daughter’s letter.
I’m all with you, Doug, on your DST views. However, I think you were a little too nice in saying DST clock switches aren’t life-threatening. In fact, there are studies now indicating (1) an increased risk of traffic accidents due to people falling asleep at the wheel and (2) an increased risk of heart attacks due to interrupted/changed sleep patterns when “springing forward.” Also it just generally screws with your circadian rhythms. I’ll try to post the links here:
http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSTRE49T6DO20081030
http://www.bio-medicine.org/medicine-news-1/Move-to-Daylight-Savings-Time-Increases-Risk-of-Drowsy-Driving-13683-1/
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071024123249.htm
Great story Jason. You and your daughter have inspired me to do even more to right this wrong. Glenn, it seems I’ve been seeing more and more evidence reputing the savings and increased safety claims of the DST/Eastern crowd. Thanks for the links.And remember the ill affects of DST are even worse here because of our placement in the wrong time zone. Dawn I’m like you. I’m gonna keep on sluggin’ away at it until this gets resolved. This is the only issue that literally effects us 24/7. That’s what I tell the “just move on” crowd.
It’s so simple, really. We’ve talked about it before. Indiana had some kind of complex about being some of the last to adopt this DST silliness. We were the butt of jokes, etc. Whatever.
The solution is to put the whole state on Central Daylight Time year-round. It would be the same as we used to have under Eastern Standard (Indiana) time. But since it would have “Daylight Savings” in the name, it would magically be acceptable and super-awesome. By being the first to adopt this awesome Daylight Savings time year-round, we could then sneer at the rest of the country for being so backward as to relapse off Daylight Savings time for a few months each year.
T-Actually Bush started moving us that direction by shifting DST to last four weeks longer…maybe the ONE GOOD THING he did…besides going back to Texas;-)
I know that I keep saying this, but Portland, Maine? We share a time zone with Portland?
I will buy into the business aspect of the argument, if only because I spent so many years explaining to friends and family about the time zone that I suspect many businesses, colleges, etc ran into the same problem.
Central Time – that way we could actually have fireworks on July 4th before 11:00 PM.
I like T. :D
Excellent response to the Capitol Watchblog, Doug. The reason “they” want us to shut up is because they know they are wrong, and don’t want to read or listen to facts about DST. The arguments in favor of DST were always suspect at best. DST doesn’t lower crime or energy costs, give us more daylight (it only shifts it), or create jobs. As I’ve said before, anyone engaged in interstate or international commerce ought to be knowledgeable about different time zones and observance or nonobservance of DST in those time zones in order to stay in business.
I’m only half joking when I say that the Bubble People (the is-there-life-outside-Marion-County? types) are the ones who insisted that most of Indiana go on Eastern Daylight Time. They got their way, damn the rest of the state.
Jason: I skipped your post. What a cute story. Way to go, Lauren! :)
BTW at a Bible study last night, one of my members said, “Well now we’re on the same time as Indy for the next eight months!” I had to remind her that the whole state is on DST now and Indy (for the forseable future) will always be an hour ahead of us. She asked me if this was new!!!!
Apparently not everyone in NW Indiana got the memo in 2006;-)
Rev, I have had to remind 3 separate people here in the last 3 days that Louisville, KY is still on the same time as us.
I’m leaving for spring break tomorrow and will be going through there right about rush hour, and so far two people have said “Well, at least they’re an hour off from us now, so it shouldn’t be too bad!”
I enjoyed (and agreed with) the comment at the Bloomington Herald-Times that said something like, “Its like cutting the bottom off the bedsheet off and sewing it to the top.”
The time zone confusion never stopped people outside the state from buying their power from the profusion of coal-fired power plants I’m surrounded by down here in southern Indiana. It never stopped all of the steel and aluminum smelters from locating here.
If you have some nastiness you want to locate elsewhere, you know exactly what time it is in southern Indiana, and you know just how to get here. Maybe it’s only the toxic jobs that are immune to the “What time is it in Indiana?” problem.
Even here in Louisville people are pissed. Having grown up on EDT in Union City, OH in a split town back in the days when EDT began on the last Sunday in April and ended on the last Sunday in October, I’m acclimated to observing EDT, it took some adjusting when I was in college at Ball State, and having lived in Muncie, and later Indy to not observing EDT. Then after living in Louisville and observing EDT again, I adjusted, but starting EDT the second Sunday in March sucks. The sunrise here in Louisville won’t be back to what it was pre EDT on March 7 until approximately April 16. I guess I’m just grumpy from losing an hour at a time when we’re working 7 days a week, 70 hour weeks. When the sunrise finally does get back on April 16 to what it was on March 7, at least tax season will be over. There’s a cool link on Wikipedia under Solar Terminator to show the daylight and darkness on Earth. It’s neat to see it showing nearly equal day and night now all over the Earth. The vernal equinox is a week from tomorrow. The link shows some interesting contrasts in early January and early April.
I know I am a couple of weeks late replying, but the previous replies really show exactly what is wrong with the opposition: You have not decided whether you want CDT OR EST. Writing that you oppose EDT because the gov. promised CDT, then saying your fix is EST, won’t convince anyone. Many people are complaining about DST, but their complaints could be solved with CDT as well as EST.
I hate Indiana’s timezone because I despise how dark mornings are in March. It is simply indefensible. Whether that is fixed by moving DST back to April, moving to CDT (as the Gov. originally promised) or moving back to year round EST w/o any DST, I don’t care. just bring back my mornings.
However, I will say that I believe only a move to CDT has any realistic chance of becoming reality.
I hope this does not become a rep. vs. dem. thing. That would kill the issue, burying DST under more popular political issues.