Just a note for all you Eastern Daylight Time fans. Today is the summer solstice. It didn’t get dark in Lafayette until about 9:54 p.m. That’s about 2 hours after I put my kids to bed.
Masson's Blog
Just a note for all you Eastern Daylight Time fans. Today is the summer solstice. It didn’t get dark in Lafayette until about 9:54 p.m. That’s about 2 hours after I put my kids to bed.
Hmm. How did that work? My one son and his wife are conservative Republicans (not sure what happened – I raised my four boys as Democrats) and voted for Daniels. But boy, are they unhappy about the DST.
They have four kids ranging from 1 to 10, and it is darn near impossible to get them to sleep while it is still light.
We have four kids (two sets of twins, 8 and 2) and blinds work great. The girls go to sleep between 7 and 7:30 and the boys at 9.
I grew up in California where DST and sunsets at 9:30 PM are the norm. Personally, I love DST. More time to get outside work done and the kids can play outside later as they get older.
The Fourth of July celebrations are gonna suck, however.
I checked for today, and it says that civil twilight for Sacramento, CA is 9:05 p.m. which is 49 minutes earlier than for Lafayette, Indiana.
Phil, where in California are sunsets of 9:30 PM the norm? Today’s (22 June) sunsets and end of civil twilight for various points in California, PDT, from the Naval Observatory, follow:
San Diego Sunset 8:00 End of Civil T-light 8:29
Anaheim Sunset 8:06 Civil T-light 8:35
San Jose Sunset 8:32 Civil T-light 9:03
Eureka Sunset 8:52 Civil T-light 9:25
Crescent City Sunset 8:55 Civil T-light 9:30
Sacramento Sunset 8:39 Civil T-light 9:06
Bakersfield Sunset 8:14 Civil T-light 8:44
Palm Springs Sunset 8:00 civil T-light 8:29
Blythe Sunset 7:52 Civil T-light 8:21
Not even in Crescent City do sunsets come after 9:00 PM, and don’t know how you could get much further west and north without getting wet. It is true that sunsets will continue to grow a little later each night until early July, but only by a minute or two over what came on the solstice.
By way of comparison to California the comparable figures for Lafayette, Indiana are:
Sunset 9:21 and end of civil Twilight 9:55.
On EDT Indiana sunsets are almost half an hour later (local clock time)than in Crescent City, which has the latest sunsets in California of any town of note. Our sunsets are close to, or more, than an hour later, than any major population center. Even observing Central Daylight, Indiana’s summer sunsets (local time) would be closely comparable to the San Francisco Bay Area, and 20 to 30 minutes later than in southern California. It should be noted that given our more northerly position than most of California, twilight lingers longer in the summer here than it does there (note the 34 minute gap between sunset and the end of civil twilight in Lafayette and the 29 minute difference in Palm Springs). Nor is Civil twilight the moment when the sky is fully dark, astronomical twilight ends even later, which is why fireworks displays will not start in this state on 4 July until well after 10:00 PM EDT.
Someone I know locally who grew up on Long Island, New York kept insisting with me that when we got DST I would understand why it was so great. Last time I spoke with him his only comment was that DST was never like this on Long Island. I find with some people who moved here from out of state an association of DST with summer vacation, which makes turning the clocks forward into a kind of signal to start partying and spending. Given what I have heard in some quarters about major increases in property vandalism (and “late night” ice cream consumption) in South Bend, Indianapolis and Fort Wayne last year, correlated with the shift to DST, I have the impression that the annual clock shift operates like releasing a valve on people’s behavior, and not necessarily in ways that are healthy.
In terms of getting work done outside I much prefer having some time in the morning, when there is a chance of it still being cool out, to to a little weeding. The thought of going out after dinner, with a blazing summer sun, the temperature lingering in the upper eighties and the dew point stuck around 70, strikes me as really ugly. Far better to be sitting on the porch with a cold beer watching the kids try to catch a few fireflys in the gathering, and quiet, dusk. Better that then my neighbor cranking up his lawn mower at 9:00 PM.
I didn’t check the temperature an hour later, so I don’t know how much I can blame on DST, but I went for a bike ride last night at 8:30 p.m. (EDT) and it was 81 or 82 degrees still.
Fireflies you say? I didn’t know we still had them.
Year-round Central Daylight Savings Time for the whole state, please. Then let’s convince all the dead-enders in the rest of the country to also observe DST year-round. If Evansville won’t go on the same time as Indy, cancel I-69. Start school 45 minutes later to keep the kids safe. Come on, somebody, make me king and watch your troubles melt away.
I’ve got the same problems with trying to get kids to bed…and it’s not like they can sleep in later, because of daycare (in the summer) & school in the early fall/late spring. Meanwhile, there are studies out there saying kids aren’t getting nearly enough sleep (sorry I’m too lazy to find a link right now). And yes, it’s definitely still very hot at 9 pm, even 10 pm, & the air conditioner’s running full blast. Somehow it didn’t seem as noticeable with the extra hour of daylight in the morning when we were on standard time…I guess since we were off to work/school & didn’t feel the need to blast the a/c as much. And DST is supposed to save on energy costs???
One of my complaints with EDT is that on weekdays it pushes me to doing things after work that formerly I would have done in the morning before going to work, such as going for bike rides. I find vigorous exercise great for getting going in the morning, but a lousy way to wind down a day.
As for fireflys, they seem to have reappeared in the Fort Wayne area over the last couple of years in fairly high numbers. I have no idea why (or even if my highly informal impression is actually correct). Perhaps they were being eaten by birds, and with bird populations depressed by the West Nile virus the firefly population has recovered. (Off hand I’d give the combination of my “observation” of increased numbers and my theory “explaining” the observation about a 1 in a million chance of being correct).
Re: Fireflies (or “lightning bugs” as we called them as kids), here is a discussion that suggests pesticides and diminishing habitat has resulted in a decline in their population. Growing up, we had a fair amount of brush and vegetation separating our back yard from that of our neighbors. We don’t have that in my current house. So, that probably explains a lot of the difference between what I saw growing up and what I see now.
I remember a point was made at some earlier time that the reason Arizona stays on MST all year is because of the heat .It’s been over 100 degrees now for several days in Phoenix. Sunset today in Phoenix is 7:41 PM and this would be about the latest it would set,so there is a good case for summer standard time in Arizona .
Sunrise was at 6:17 and sunset at 9:17 for Indianapolis today which means there were exactly 15 hours of sunlight available here. I bet this was the same amount of sunshine we had 2 years ago before we observed Eastern Daylight SAVINGS Time.
The time zone system was designed so that no location was more than 30 minutes (in theory) removed from true sun time. Sun time for Indianapolis today would have sunrise at 4:30 and sunset at 7:30 so we are an hour and forty-seven minutes off of sun time. Noon actually occured at 1:47 pm today. Interesting fact the hottest time of the day normally trails noon by approx. 2 hours. So that means it is the warmest about 4 pm in the summer when many people are getting off work.
To me 4:17 June sunrises with Central Standard Time don’t make anymore sense than 8:15 October sunrises with Eastern Daylight Time do.
As Doug has said much of this is personal preference. That is why it should be decided by a vote of the people – not by Washington bureaucrats.
“4:17 June sunrises with Central Standard Time don’t make anymore sense than 8:15 October sunrises with Eastern Daylight Time do.” Who recently has come out in favor of year round standard time on Central Time? I haven’t seen anyone seriously suggesting we switch to Central Time and not observe daylight saving. That would put us an hour behind Chicago and two hours behind Ohio from March to November. Moving to Central Time would mean sunrise at 5:17 AM CDT in June, not 4:17.
I agree Paul. I was trying to point out the issue is zones not Daylight Savings Time. Notice, no one ever advocates Eastern Daylight Savings Time specifically. They always mention generic DST not EDT. This is by design. Anyone, in their eyes, that is against DST must therefore be backward and a reactionary.
We Hoosiers are never given credit for being on the same as all year Central Daylight Savings Time since 1961.
You know it always amuses me the way Hoosiers dwell on this issue so much. If that is what somebody wants to do with their time that’s fine, but it just seems to me like such a counterproductive waste of time. I have spent a lot of time in Alaska in the Summer in which the daylight is much longer and later in the evening; most people I cam across manage just fine and further have try to make the most of, not wine about it.
In reagards to time zones, yes I am one who advocates EDT specifically. I’d much rather have daylight in the evening during the summer months than 5 AM when I am asleep. I also have no use of having very early sunlights in the Winter which would have happened had we gone to Central Time. To me, I see very few benefits of being on Central Time.
In Alaska it also lighter much earlier in the morning as well as light into the evening, and, by gosh, north of the Artic circle it is light 24 hours a day. Exactly what adjustments do you learn to live with DST in a place where DST is meaningless? People simply sleep better if if is dark an hour or two before they go to bed. When that isn’t possible we can survive, but that doesn’t make it a healthy arrangement.
Alaska as it happens is home to one of the strongest anti-DST movements in the country. It is reported that continued observance of DST in Alaska is to be subject to a referendum in 2008. See the Wikipedia article on “Daylight saving time around the world”.
What else can we learn from Alaska? It used to have 4 time zones, Pacific, Yukon, Alaska/Hawaii and Bering, but consolidated these into just two time zones, with over 99% of the population now living in the former Yukon (now renamed Alaska) zone and the Aleutian Islands moved to the former Alaska/Hawaii zone (now the Aleutian/Hawaii Time). I guess a desire to have as much of the state as possible on one time zone was pretty strong. They certainly didn’t establish a system which split the state 80/20 population wise and announce that unity through divirsity had been established.
DST north of 50 and South of 30 degrees is problematic. I assume Alaka observes DST not for added daylight,but to avoid confusion in transportation and commerce… thes ame reason they condensed their TZs. Juneau( far south Alaska) now on DST has a sunrise of 3:52 AM and sunset of 10:09 pm and Anchorage has a sunrise of 4:22 am and a sunset of 11.43 PM.Can anyone imagine that not observing DST would cause anyone to notice? Im sure twilight is obvious all the ‘dark hours’ anyway. Mexico started observing DST a few years ago and it’s problematic there ,and probably is just from international pressure for unified travel/commerce. Sunrise in Cancun on CDT is 6:07 am and sunset is 7:32pm. Without DST Cancun would always have sunsets between about 5:45 pm and 6:30 pm year round, the longest daylight period is never much more than 131/2 hours.
It’s clearly here that the time issue is indeed for commerce and not for the man-on-the street.Alaska could easily put the whole state on one time. The natural time shift is so extreme,that DST,or TZ would be hardly noticeable.
The time issue in Indiana is completely diffrent,and has been greatly examined.
Alaska had four time zones until 30 October 1983. From that date forward, they have only two time zones. Only extreme western Alaska that includes the Aleutian Islands is on Hawaii-Aleutian Time. The rest of the state, where 99% of the population reside, is on one time zone…Alaskan Time. It was done to unify the residents. I agree with previous writers on this post that DST in far northern latitudes is meaningless. And has little value below 30 degrees latitude. Having sunsets pushed artificially later into the night has ramifications for sleep. With actual solar noon occurring between 1400-1500 ADT also means very late sunsets. My proposal, bring back the four time zones, and bring back STANDARD TIME for year round use. No one really needs an artificially late sunset beyond 2200 or 10pm. The idea of double daylight time is not only a problem in Alaska, but in most of Indiana as well. And, Michigan too.
What is Michigan doing on Eastern Time? Guess you all enjoy those late morning sunrises in October into March, eh?
The problem is not Daylight Savings Time, the problem is Indiana is in the wrong time zone. Indiana should be in the Central time zone. Michigan should be there, too, as should Kentucky and a big slice of Ohio.
Get Marion County to switch to Central time, and all the little duckling counties that blindly follow mama duck Marion around will switch, and the thing will be solved.
Info for Fairbanks ,Alaska,June 25.. Sunset at 12:45AM DST and sunrise 2 hours and 15 minutes later at 3:00AM DST.
Standard Time Forever! ;-)
less than 2 weeks ago i was in D.C., it was dark.. i mean DARK at 930pm… did anyone notice that its not dark {DARK} here (lafayette) until 1030pm… this is insane!!!!!
i grew up in So. Cal. and changing times is no biggy, although not changing is so great… but this twilight poop until 1030pm is nuts.. can you say central time? my kids too are up late… my husband and i have decided to pick our battles… they are 9 and 11 and its a pain to get older kids to bed when the sun is beaming in thier windows… but out the window is momma and papa bear’s alone time too.
day light savings time was made for the farmers… not for commerce.. so why the heck are we on Eastern time?… oh thats right so we could be on the same time as New York… who could give to flips about little indiana’s commerce.
did anyone notice that when the farmers need the sun to be up earlier {and later} for them it wasn’t? but it sure stays out later when they don’t need it… like the middle of summer… when the crops are already in the ground. i don’t see how EDT is helping the farmers. can someone explain this to me? oh.. thats right we’re in indiana.. not much our law makers do makes sense. it seems to me they have a ‘lets give it a whirl, and see what happens’ attitude, without thinking about the outcome.
My kids start school in less than a month, i’m buying room darkening shades for them, so they can get a decent nights sleep before school each day, until the sun sets at a reasonable time anyway.. do you think the indiana officials who chose EDT will reimburse me for the shades?