So, I was in an auto accident back in mid-June; very minor stuff. I was stopped at a red light, and a guy rear-ended my car, some healthy damage to the back corner of my car, but nothing else really. It was a hassle, but everyone in the chain has performed admirably; with one notable exception.
The guy who hit me, apologized, was very nice, and was insured. The Lafayette Police Department officer was on the scene promptly, and took care of business efficiently. I called and reported to my insurer but indicated that I was going to get my car repaired under the other guy’s insurer, State Farm. The State Farm claim rep didn’t give me any hassles, just asked where I wanted to get my car fixed and hooked me up with a rental vehicle. It was a Saturn, so I took it to Bob Rohrman Collision, and they took a look, wrote up an estimate, and got it fixed within a couple of days.
The LPD officer had advised me that I’d be getting a notice from the Indiana BMV asking for proof of financial responsibility – apparently they are requiring that of everyone who gets in an accident under IC 9-25-5-2, regardless of fault or lack thereof. Eventually, on July 30, I got the notice from the BMV with the form for providing proof of insurance. It instructed me to give it to my insurer who was to complete the form and provide it to the BMV prior to September 7, 2010 to show that I was, in fact, insured at the time of the accident. On August 16, I called my insurance adjuster on the claim and faxed the form to her. On August 17, she faxed and mailed the verification.
So, imagine my surprise this weekend to receive a Notice of License Suspension dated September 7, indicating that they had suspended my license because they had not received proof of financial responsibility. First thing this morning, I called my adjuster with some concern. Her response, “Oh, they do this all the time.” She provided me with a copy of the fax confirmation sheet, showing that she had, in fact, faxed the copy to the BMV. They got it 3 weeks early, couldn’t process their paperwork, but could spit out a license suspension notice.
So I have absolutely followed every rule in this situation – I had insurance, I was not at fault for the accident, I turned in proof of insurance well advance, and the Indiana BMV is still screwing with me.
Any legislators who happen to read this thing – here is a nice hanging curve ball to knock out of the park politically. Nobody likes the BMV, they have a system that appears to be very broken (from my adjuster’s reaction, I am far from the first person in this situation), and an angry electorate would presumably enjoy seeing an unresponsive bureaucracy raked over the coals a bit. As for a good legislative fix – perhaps mandate that the BMV is not permitted to suspend any licenses under this provision until they have processed all certificates of compliance received by the bureau on or before the particular due date.
Bastards.
Non illegitimi carborundum !
I had the same experience except they were over a year behind on processing. So they didn’t notify for a long time (to where I had to go back to my old insurance agent), get the form, submit it, then got dinged because of their inefficiency.
Doug, I don’t dispute a thing you relate. But I just went to the (closed) license branch this morning to renew my plates, used the terminal in the lobby, and it went off without a hitch, except the renewal sticker was a bit hard to peal off to affix to the plate. So perhaps it is the humans in the BMV who are part of the mess? Imagine that. But this is at least one thing which works, just thought I would share.
Doug, I must take exception with one point you make. You seem to indicate you are not at fault in this matter, but it seems fairly clear that you voluntarily chose to reside in the State of Indiana.
Dude, your problem is that you were a sucker enough to get a license in the first place. Why go through that hassle and expense when you can just drive? And nobody stops you.
I’m not kidding. I know an absolutely insane person who doesn’t even tag her car. No license, not a US Citizen, and she drives around no problem.
Or there’s this guy, who was an illegal, had multiple DUIs, and evidently never had a license.
Just say no to the BMV. They can’t stop you.
Try the Indiana State Board of Health if you want to get a birth certificate. Takes about 6 to 12 weeks. They only process their mail maybe 1.5 days a week during regular weeks, less frequently on weeks with a holiday. And even though they have computers, they act like they only have one 1940s style typewriter.
Blame the screwups on Mitchie.
Same experience about a year ago – but they said I should hand-deliver the form to them if I wanted it fixed (time and money on my end). In person, they kept saying that the first form they received wasn’t filled out correctly, even though the one I hand-delivered was a photo copy and, according to them, was filled out correctly.
After I posted this, I got an e-mail from a nice fellow at the BMV who gave me a fax number to expedite the process. I faxed it there and scanned a PDF copy that I sent to him for good measure. He says my license has been reinstated and he’s looking into where things broke down. I said that if the problem was on my end or my insurer’s end, I’d post a retraction or update on this post.
Scant consolation, I know, but the BMV is lots, lots better than it used to be.
Can you share the contact information Doug? I have a relative with the same situation.
I am not sure about all this mail and fax stuff. The few times a year I must manage this process for our fleet of work vehicles and the occasional incident in the family – the insurance agent files online. Have never had a hiccup excepting a human on my end of the chain “forgetting” to tell me about their accident/ticket and not passing on the notice from the BMV.
Let me get this straight. You were following the traffic rules, hit by someone who broke those rules, dutifully bore the appropriate administrative burdens — and got your license suspended. What government interest is served by burdening people who follow the rules? Also, to what extent is this widespread problem a function of blind reliance on technology to administer a regulatory scheme? The state presumes instant communication (from your carrier) will occur flawlessly and no cases will be backlogged, but that is not the case. It seems like in the old days of U.S. mail and walking up to the counter these situations were rare.
it’s not even close to the same problem as you had, and is just pure whining on my part, but the BMV annoyed me recently as well. I had the “free” Lincoln plate the state had issued – problem was they did not tell people that starting in 2010 the plates are now considered “specialty plates” and come with the $40 charge. In order to remain with a “free” plate, I had to BUY a regular ol’ blue plate for a “$10 administrative fee”.
I would’ve just got the blue plate 2 years ago to avoid the hassle had I known. I know two other people who had the same problem. When I did research on the free Lincoln plate, it said it was free in 2008 and 09. I guess in 2008 (I’ve slept since then) I took this to mean you could get it in either of those years and it would be free until 2013 when the plates change again. The way the BMV press releases were worded (or misworded?) made it seem that way to me. Even a federal judge in a lawsuit about the “In God We Trust” free plate indicated the Lincoln plate was free, with no mention of any caveats.
And I do not necessarily buy that the BMV is more improved; although I had a very nice lady help me, I waited in line to “check-in” for 25 minutes, sat for about 7, and then got helped in another 8. So it took 40 minutes on a Friday early afternoon at a rather obscure southside Indianapolis BMV to get a plate and stickers – that’s still a pretty long time, although I think for official numbers from check-n to check-out I was there only 15 minutes.
My experience generally, this instance not withstanding, is that things have improved some over the past several years. I agree that not timing the period from coming into the branch and finally getting to “check in” is a cheat.
I’ll be interested to see if the BMV rep who was looking into my case offers an explanation as to where things broke down, but my sense is they have an automated suspension system without having a corresponding automated financial responsibility verification system that can keep up with the suspension system.
The same thing has happened to me two different times when I’ve gotten hit in an accident. After calling the BMV on the same day I received it, I was assured verbally that the license was not suspended. A notice that the “pending suspension” has been rescinded arrived a few days later.
You’re probably correct in thinking that it is a result of an automated system that doesn’t cross-reference with the verification system. In addition, the fact that one has to give the verification request to one’s insurance agent to send in the verification of coverage only adds to the delay since it’s almost a given that it will take you more than a day to physically deliver the BMV’s request. Given the process, it’s practically guarantees a potential suspension.
Same thing happened to my oldest son.
Exact same thing happened to me. Except… I never got a notice that my license was suspended! I only realized it once I saw that my insurance costs suddenly were through the roof. After some frantic phone calls to my insurance guy, several faxes back and forth and a lunch break spent at the BMV, everything was back to normal. Ugh.
The problem with this issue may be somewhat a technological one, but I think it’s more just plain old human error more often than not. I say this because my son was involved in a minor accident in December of 1999 and had to furnish the same proof after the accident. His insurance agent took care of the notification in an appropriate and timely manner. In June of 2001 he was notified by mail that his license was suspended since he had not furnished the necessary information.
Needless to say, he had to do some scrambling to get things straightened out. The insurance agent had to spend an inordinate amount of time finding the proof he had sent the fax and supplied the correct information, etc. and my son was in limbo for a couple of days before the BMV informed him that they had made an error and that his license was still valid.
The BMV wasn’t nearly as automated in 1999 as they are today, but they were staffed then, as now, by people who routinely make mistakes and are allowed to keep making those same mistakes. I call that incompetence.
Can’t wait for a fully activated bureaucracy to get into health care, can you?
There’s already a huge bureaucracy in health care. The existing one just has a profit motive with only a tenuous association with actually delivering health care. If we currently had a system where the people making money were the ones delivering the most affordable, best quality health care; I’d say government involvement was a step down. But we don’t, so I’m not.
I have had my share of issues with the BMV, but they pale in comparison to Anthem, Comcast and a host of other corporate entities I have dealt with.
I was in the same shocking situation as you, Doug, and thanks for this exposure. Are you listening, legislators?
This would be so easy to fix if there was a checkbox on the police form. Does accident victim have proof of insurance? YES/NO If the answer is NO then you have to send proof to the BMV.
Oh well, that sounds like common sense and we can’t have any of that in our state laws.
I’m currently dealing with the same sort of ridiculous situation. I was rear ended while sitting at a red light back in June. My insurance had JUST renewed four days prior to the accident so I had a BRAND NEW card from the insurance company to show the officer that arrived at the scene. (IMO, Clearly there shouldn’t have been any question as to whether I actually had insurance or not.)
I’ve got a few weeks before my license is going to expire, but getting this damn form signed and sent in has been ridiculous. I don’t have a local agent who can fill it out (since I purchased my insurance online) so I had to mail the form to the insurance company a few weeks ago when I got it. They just now found the form and called this afternoon to ask me if I had a fax number for the BMV they could send it to since they’re not sure it’s going to get back to Indy in time for my license to NOT be suspended. It’s ridiculous! (I also don’t understand how a large insurance company doesn’t automatically have that information available since, surely, I’m not the first Ameriprise customer in Indiana to have to send this form in.) Of course there’s no Fax # to be found on the BMV’s website so I’ve been sitting on the phone trying to figure out the right combination of numbers to press to either find that information, or to speak with live person who can simply tell me what I need to know. ……….Argh……..
It’s stuff like this where a good leader would step in and make sure that the core problem got solved.
While I agree that the BMV is miles ahead of where it has been before, it obviously still has a goodly distance to go.
Wolf: Law enforcement does check insurance at the site of the accident, but just because someone has an insurance card doesn’t mean that the policy is in force. The policy could have been canceled the moment the card arrived in the mail or the policyholder could have allowed it to lapse.
The idea of having the insurance agent verify that there is an actual policy in force is a good one. The practical application of it is where it fails.
Maybe someone should just go ahead and suggest that the BMV be privatized; then we’d have a way better system, and cheaper for the tax-payers, too. LOL.
Below is the BMV’s response we sent to Doug last week. The BMV has worked to modernize the process over the past 3 years.
Mr. Masson,
I tried to investigate your case more thoroughly, but without seeing a fax cover sheet or a tracking number from your insurance agent for the Certificate of Compliance, I cannot confirm where the document went or if we even received the certificate.
In order to modernize the process of collecting Certificates of Compliance and reduce the error rate, the BMV three years ago began a program to receive electronic submissions of these documents. The Electronic Insurance Forms Submission (EIFS) program automatically processes these documents within 24 hours of receipt, often more quickly than that. Additionally, if there is a problem with the submission, such as incomplete information or a wrong model year on the vehicle, an error report is generated and sent directly to the insurance agent. That cannot happen now with hard copy submittals (mailed or faxed) due to the sheer volume of Certificates of Compliance that we receive on a weekly basis, over 10,000.
This EIFS process has been embraced by many insurance agents because of its simplicity and effectiveness. In part, because of encouragement from insurance agents, the BMV began on September 1 requiring all insurance agents to use EIFS. This nearly eliminates any problems collecting the Certificates of Compliance. At this point, approximately 70% of insurance agents/providers submit documentation using the electronic process, with more coming on line each week.
Unfortunately, your insurance company, 21st Century Insurance, still has not successfully faxed or emailed the required documents to join EIFS. At one point after a phone conversation, where we confirmed our fax number, your adjuster stated she would immediately fax the documents to the BMV. We had an employee wait at the fax machine for 10 minutes for the documents. While other faxes came through, none from 21st Century Insurance arrived. I am not sure if any firm conclusion can be drawn, but there certainly is a possibility that your insurance agent did not successfully send your documents to us.
Hmm… I don’t buy that letter they sent you, because the same thing happened to me, but with an interesting twist:
In my case, the *local BMV office* faxed them the insurance compliance information after they suspended my license because the original Fax from my insurance agent (allegedly) never arrived. The story that they never received a fax from your company doesn’t hold water as the source of the problem, because apparently they aren’t receiving faxes from their own branch offices either. (I wonder if anyone has thought to put paper in the fax machine this year? .) In addition, I have the following gripes:
1) Their web site was great… after a lengthy signup process, I was informed that my license is suspended and invited to pay $150 to correct the BMV’s error. I love it when state offices modernize! It allows them to screw you more efficiently than ever before, and all from the convenience of your own home! Go Mitch!
2) Giving up on the web, I went for the phone, but the phone number on the BMV web site has one too many digits on it. If you dial their phone number, it doesn’t work… until you count the digits, realize the number is too long and leave off the last one. (https://myweb.in.gov/BMV/mybmvportal/MyAccount/ContactTheBMV.aspx) The nice lady I (finally) got on the phone said nobody had ever pointed that out to them…
2) When you finally do get through and enter the required info, you’ll get a message that says you’re suspended, but they can’t provide you any information about reinstatements over the phone. However, they did suggest I go to their web site, where I could get more info for a small fee. On the bright side, if you ignore the phone message, you finally get a human. in my case, I spoke to Toni, who was able to confirm that they apparently hadn’t received my compliance information . (Gee… really?) She was nice enough, but essentially told me I had to get my insurance agent to resubmit the information that has already been sent to them twice.
No… I’d say they haven’t located the problem yet. But sadly, I agree with Linda: The BMV is much better than it *used* to be, and I can’t say enough good things about the helpful folks at the branch offices I’ve used in Liberty and Richmond.
Kernan and Shepard need to try living outside of Indianapolis and using state services before they author any more reports about accountability being improved by moving services from the county to the state level. (Grumph!)
My daughter was involved in a wreck. The officer said that she had to notify our insurance company. My first reaction was why? If I can settle the situation out of my pocket there is no reason to contact the insurance company. But by that time my daughter had already called the insurance company. OK… The car was fixed, the repairs was less than $1000 and time goes by. Then I see this little thin paper “open now” form letter that looks like most of the other junk mail that we receive except it is from the BMV. The note says that proof of insurance has to be submitted by xx date which is just a couple of days away. So I quickly type up a letter and send it via certified mail and include our insurance policy page showing them proof of insurance and tell them I will contact my agent. I also send my agent an email asking how they handle this. Time goes by and I get a reply from the BMV saying that the agent must guaranty insurance. Why? The car has been fixed, settlement has been made weeks ago?? Then a day later my daughter gets a note saying her license has been suspended. So what is she to do not drive. Skip college classes? Not go to work? Nope she drives as usual. I contact the insurance agent who I emailed and find that she was no longer with the company and now I have a new person to deal with. I send her the form and she submits the “proof” to the BMV. Two weeks later her license is re-instated.
When I talked to my agent, she said that this happens all of the time. She said the notice is so small and looks like junk mail so much that people throw it away. The suspension notice is also small and appears like junk mail so many people drive around for a long time before they realize that they have no license!
Ever wonder why the license reinstatement centers at the BMV are so busy?? Now I know. They have a regular money making business going on there! I now think of it as license extortion.
So basically the BMV is knowingly suspending peoples licenses without cause. Crazy!
This big brother.. crap… you are guilty until proven innocent is the kind of thing that gives Indiana a bad name. Just because it is law, does not mean it is right. And this is definitely wrong. The country bumpkins that we voted into Indiana office need to do something other than dream up problems that really aren’t problems and then create laws to prevent them. This is the craziest state I have lived in. They trip over dollars to pickup pennies. Sell Interstates (the tollroad) so their public funds look good for a while.. etc.
I thought Ohio was goofy, but this state is downright nuts. Indiana is a fairly cheap place to live, but in between the activist Sheriff’s who almost take the law into their own hands, the nutcase lawmakers, and the religious zealots, and the general level of stupidity in Indiana, living here can be downright uncomfortable sometimes. Ever try arguing with an evangelist? It doesn’t work. They are right and you are wrong and they simply won’t listen. That is how the government of Indiana works. These egotistical nutjobs get voted into office and they know what is right. Just ask them. No need to listen. Look at Mitch Daniels. Does that guy listen to anyone? How about the Mark Souder. Did he listen to anyone? Heck no, they know what you need and what I need and they are very happy to cram it down our throats.
I like to fix things, but there are so many things broken in this state that it might be better just to move out.
if any of you all actualy know the fax number to actualy send the certificate of compliance it would be very helpfull, pleale contact me by email at johnson.trevor99@yahoo.com do to the fact my problem is very similar to a lot of your alls and hopefully I find someone to be very helpfull, thank you.
I read that you doug was emailed a fax number to expedite the process, if theres anyway you could be helpfull in emailing that number It would be more then helpfull to speed up this process, and repaying you for your assistance would be without a doubt honorable.
The “Director of the BMV” of the great State of Indiana has just “resigned” after he was arrested for exposing himself to a plain clothes Police officer in a downtown Indianapolis bar. Is it any wonder that we have the issues we do when we have morons calling the shots here!!!
doug your experience is the same one im facing. the law IC 9-25-5-2 is total bs completely what business is it to bmv if i had insurance or not if someone driving without insurance then let the police officer arrest them and let the person they hit take them to court. im thinking about filing a civil law suit has to be a violating of our rights.
I don’t agree with that, I guess. I’ve handled a lot of cases where my client’s car was hit by someone who was uninsured. A lot of times, you can never get the person to pay. Maybe they could’ve handled a few hundred bucks a year for insurance, but they can’t handle $25,000 in damages.
Still, the BMV should be set up to receive and record information about insurance in an efficient and accurate manner.
Well, I just went through the same ORDEAL. I had an accident in a company vehicle December 22, 2010. My company sent paperwork to their insurance company, who in turn faxed it to the BMV and gave me a copy. March 17th, 2011 I get a letter from BMV saying my license had been suspended March 16th. Go figure. I took a day off and went to BMV downtown (during a tea party rally) paid $5 to park, only to be told by the receptionist that she could not accept a copy of the form from me, it had to come straight from the company’s insurance representative. Needless to say I Finally got my license reinstated on March 20th. What a JOKE!!!!!
Their procedure for receiving and documenting proofs of insurance needs to change. And the BMV ought to take some affirmative steps to verify that no proof of insurance has been provided before it automatically terminates a license and spits out a form letter.
Here’s my situation. I got onto mybmv.com on 6/1/2011 to make sure my info was up to date. It was then I realized my license had been suspended since 7/2010! It was for a ticket that I had paid 7/2010. The court faxed the sr16 in august but the BMV never received it. The court has sent it 3 more times since to no avail…im at my wits end! They dont allow you to “hand deliver” the sr16. It has to be electronically sent from the court. It has been 2 wks. since I’ve noticed this problem and nothing has yet to be taken care of! You can imagine my frustration!
Yep, BMV is just a cash cow. They do stupid things like recently this past year they pull all the self service centers. First they don’t send out notices to you most current address, so you can’t renew then they pull the conveience factor out of your hand so your not driving legal. It one big f*ck fest dealing with them. Their employees flat out don’t care either. I ordered mine online and it better be here next week before I go on vacation out of state. No notification to the public they even closed their ATM centers. They said it’s the governor and/or mayor who made these decisions, if so time to fire their dumb asses. It’s all just plain stupid.
Oh, And they are suspending as many license as they can. Like if you get two voliations within two years your suppose to goto a defense driving class, but they don’t send out the notices telling you to do so! Then they suspend your license which costs you big money and your insurance rates go up for 5 years. What a bunch of Nazis! Somebody better do something soon before the public takes matters into their own hands. More stupidity all around us. This very thing I described happen to me about a year ago. Happy Hunting!
Doug,
I sympathize with your situation but your type of nightmare is about to get worse now that Indiana BMV is steered toward privatization. Pretty soon the branches and the central offices will be filled with undereducated minimum wage workers working under a private board of directors (probably cronies of uncle Mitch that will be making 6-7 figure incomes) AND you and the rest of us Hoosiers will get even worse treatment.
Obviously our whining about the situation won’t make it better so just take it like a man buddy
I recently received a letter from bmv. It threatened to suspend my license over a wreck or ticket. The problem was I was never in a wreck and never recieved a ticket. It also said I was in a certain type of car which I was never in (that I failed to register). News flash brainiacs. I did not register it because I dont own such a car. Christ who is in charge???? My anger at this is legendary. Through thier needless threats they endanger my job, my clean driving record, and my clean criminal record, for even if it were suspended i would not stop driving because I WAS NOT INVOLVED IN AN ACCIDENT AND DID NOT IGNORE ANY TICKETS. This is from a law abiding citizen who always pays their insurance for over twenty years now WITHOUT INTERUPTION for more than one car. This is why the country is in the shape it is in. PURE STUPIDITY
As a matter of fact. I wish I could have a name list of the people who mishandled this. I see why Darth Vader used to need so many replacements. (just trying to have a little humor about a truly humorless situation)
I mean why would I pay for three cars insurance and then somehow fail to register a fourth? This had better be an easy fix. but hey they sent the letter on saturday (too late to get in touch with them) then they are closed on Monday (really?) Truthfully thats just ass dumb. Monday is went people try to get to it. I am anticipating a lot of crap instead of an easy ok. I see you are insured for three cars that are registered to you and this other car is not yours, clearly a mistake has been made (that is what I would expect them to say), but I dont feel good considering massive mistakes must have been made for it to even end up in my mailbox in the first place.
ps i must admit it wasnt my real email. I just wanted to get the truth about what indiana is doing out their. Its either horribly broken, filled with incompetance, or crime.
if they go forward with this and it takes more than a day to resolve I am thinking about getting a lawyer. I will not wait for the suspension. or rather I will be waiting for them to do so then I am suing absolutely everyone the lawyer sais I can. (hopefully he sais i can sue someone or some entity or this is truly bullshit to the maximum power). Sorry to curse if you dont like that and I am sorry. but sometimes it is necessary to show emotion.
ha now both agencies want to give me the run around. One says you need to straighten that out with the other. Police say straigten it out with bmv. Bmv says straigten it out with Police. I have optained the police report of the accident and get this. Im not on it. Idiots are in charge. So my license is being threatened to be suspended for two other peoples accident in a town I never even heard of. Even though I have the police report with the clear mistake on it. everyone is acting like they cant change anything. Sorry Indiana, I am going to have to take what few cents this broke state got left cause the suing will start with the officer who made the mistake. perhaps the police station. and once that is won. Indiana for not simply changing incorrect information when I brought them the erroneous police report. Keep on being stupid Indiana. Im counting on it.
my husband is currently going through the exact same thing. Except, his insurance company, geico, will not fax the form to the BMV. I even had the local license branch to call and ask for it and they wouldn’t do it. Why are we paying for insurance again????
My insurance agent FAXed proof of insurance information to the DMV not once but six times and has the cover sheets to prove it. I mailed in proof of insurance three times and have the registered mail receipts to prove that not only did I mail it, but someone at the DMV signed for it. I still had to spend hours at the DMV to straight this out; the clerk assured me that there was nothing in my record to indicate that any of the NINE notifications ever reached them.
That’s insane!