Scott Tibbs, writing at Hoosier Access, has a good post about fireworks regulation. He’s a conservative and generally takes a libertarian view of things but recognizes a need for more restrictions on the use of fireworks in Indiana. He cites a Matt Tully column on how such restrictions have become looser rather than stricter over recent years, in part because of the influence of the fireworks lobby in the state.
More restrictions make sense. These are explosives and they are often not well controlled by the people who use them. Even libertarians recognize that your right to swing your arm stops at the tip of my nose. Fireworks usage frequently crosses those boundaries — if nothing else, the noise crosses property lines. But, often enough, the explosive is sent flying off the user’s property, exposing others to risk.
Furthermore, state government has tied the hands of local government; limiting the ability of local communities to make their own decisions about what sort of explosives are appropriate on and around July 4 and New Years.
No, he doesn’t.
Libertarianism is, and always has been, fully anti-capitalist, because capitalism is a fundamentally authoritarian mode of socioeconomic organization.
Authoritarianism requires the initiation of force. Please show your work.
Law in general is really just potential force.
Tell me, how is a claim of property over something I’m not immediately and directly using enforced?
“More restrictions make sense.”
You could dispense with writing any articles, at all, emblazon this most cherished belief brightly across your website, and better accomplish your corrosive mission.
You are very unhappy with me. I have to confess; I’m a little flattered to be such an important figure in your life.
I wonder if you give Mike Pence the same feeling?
I doubt Mike Pence stops thinking about running for President long enough to notice or realize he’s a poor governor, much less about being talked about frequently on an Indiana politics blog.
Of course, if you used some of your “freedom” to search the site history, or if you stepped into the world of rational thought for around four seconds, you’d realize it’s rather hard to talk about Indiana politics and not talk about the governor of the state of Indiana.
As someone who until recently lived across from some folks who took advantage of Indiana’s fireworks laws to re-enact the sounds of aerial bombardment of a different World War II battle each night for six weeks, I agree with the sentiment of both posts.
Welcome to Hoosierville, where the fireworks lobby controls the night.
Joe, ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME???????
And, you didn’t invite me over to watch? That is just mean-spirited.
roflmao
Because I was too busy trying to get/keep two young kids to sleep. But hey, as long as the fireworks lobby stays happy, who am I to complain?
http://www.dailyjournal.net/view/local_story/Plans-filed-for-Center-Grove-a_1372127101/
Varangianguard – We seemed to have a re-enactment of Dresden here. Inspiring for the first 10 or so hours, but then I found myself wondering why I don’t have a bunker to retreat to.
Doug- Externalities, as ever.
On the fourth and fifth, I did not need to go to see fireworks. They continued until about midnight or one. These subdivision neighbors must have spend 100s of dollars on that stuff.
I held they dogs as they shivered and cried.
Or was it the other way ’round?
Call the burn unit.
I agree that fireworks available for private purchase seem to have been increasing in the strength. I was amazed at some of the booms coming from half a mile away, or so. I would posit “thousands” in some cases, Carlito. I witnessed one display above the treeline that probably lit off hundeds of dollars of fireworks in just about seven seconds.
Still, none of that compares to the Richmond Hill explosion (which wasn’t fireworks, of course).
I hate fireworks and would favor a ban on all private use.
“I hate fireworks and would favor a ban on all private use.”
Equals,
“I hate X and would favor a ban on all private use.”
This policy of envy and spite is precisely the charge leveled against liberals and is exactly the sort of undisciplined rage that must be denied access to government’s deliberative halls.
This is where liberals fail. They rule by impulse and raw desire. Government must be more reasoned, more restrained and more credible than being someone’s bare desires.
Government must act only when and where absolutely necessary. Firework regulation is far from any frontier of governmental imperative, yet the unctuous and evil reflexively employ government as a bludgeon to control one’s neighbour.
When government is properly understood, firework regulation is criminal and is an ordinance undeserving of respect.
“Government must act only when and where absolutely necessary.”
Yes, like protecting innocent people from incendiary devices launched by amateurs.
“Yes, like protecting innocent people from incendiary devices launched by amateurs.”
Yep.
And keeping me up half the night with explosions in the neighborhood I don’t think is right either. And it’s not just one night.
I understand that in Germany, they forbid all fireworks at all times except for one day, when it’s do what you want. I’m sure that gives the hospitals time to staff their ER services and prepare for the next year. In Indiana, my experience is that this nonsense starts in early June, and continues the rest of the summer and, it’s “all about me” with my “right” to shoot off stuff at 1:00 a.m.
Fireworks have no utility and many are airborne incendiaries and would qualify as bombs which are illegal under the Indiana code if not exempted as “fireworks.”
What do you suggest controlling your neighbor from disturbing the peace and launching flaming devices that can strike your house? Respond with equal and equivalent Hobbesian force?
Write us from jail this weekend if you want.
Carlito “evil” Brigante
No, anything you can buy at the local stand is nowhere close to being a “bomb.” The commercial stuff produces some noise and light, but they emit very low PSI.
I’m sure that will be a source of cold comfort to the people who have lost body parts from those “very low PSI” explosions.
Did you skip Physics? Low PSI can cause bodily injury but does not a bomb make.
Dog bites can cause bodily injury and result in loss of limbs; baseballs can cause bodily injury. These are not bombs.
Very weak appeal to emotion and an embarrassing display of lack of explosives knowledge. I’m almost starting to think you never completed your qualification to work with ordinance.
No, but I can read. The 2012 Indiana Firework Related Injury Report (Ind. State. Dept. of Health) says that, last year, about half of the injuries were burns and 12.9% were eye injuries. There was one leg amputation and one death. They don’t have to meet bomb criterion to cause suffering, death and destruction.
“Fireworks have no utility.”
This semester, when you’re selecting your classes, have the Dean of your high school enroll you in an Economics class.
Say that quote to your teacher, and enjoy the lesson.
Then don’t use the definition of “bomb.” Duh.
I have a minor in economics. I added the word social to utility. Get it, dude, “social utility.” Read before responding, little man.
I guess Freedom can read. I did leave out the word “social” before utility. I congratulate our foil for actually reading a post.
My bad and a thousand pardons. But no yielding on the fact that fireworks do not have social utility.
“Fireworks have no utility…”
Your quote. You lose…again.
The real problem is that 1:00 a.m. blast several blocks from your house, so you hear the blast but don’t know the culprit. And they’re smart enough to know that if they set off a whole bunch of them over a period of time, they could have a frank discussion with the police about disturbing the peace.
Come think of it, I’ll be this is a hellish time for some folks with PTSD. The people who think “it’s all about me” are making life miserable for people who served them in the military.
Freedom would not have concern for anyone else, as his definition of freedom is a narcissitic amalgamation of phrases and buzzwords. So appealing to his sense of respect for veterans would get anyone very far. However, needling him will trip his borderline personality and entertain all of us with his rants, nonsensical responses, sophomoric turgid prosaic ramblings, and genuine lack of common human sense.
One more thing: despite that palaver about .employing government as “bludgeon to control one’s neighbor”, the use of fireworks needs to be regulated as a matter of common sense and protect us from the “impulse and raw desire” of selfish people who think they have the “right” to set off ammunition grade explosions after 11:00 and disturb the sleep of people who will make a contribution to the society the next morning. That business about certain activities having no restrictions or bounds because people somehow have the license to do whatever they want whenever they want is not freedom. As they say, freedom is not license. Legal guys can address that more eloquently than I can.
Yeah, well, but you guys are just evil librul commies on account of hatin’ fireworks and whatnot. Unpatriotic, too. Plus, What I say goes on account of Freedom. Ayn Rand y’all!
Sir, you make a lot of sense. I stand in awe, freedumb.
Stuart, it’s clearly a matter of common sense that the desires of the frail, timid, and weak should not receive audience or deliberation in legislative chambers.
What you complain of, late fireworks enjoyment, is already an ordinance violation in your community. You have to endure it twice a year past the cut off, but 363 days a year find fireworks ceasing by your bedtime.
You want to be a decent member of your community, don’t you? Don’t be one of those “all about me” folks and begrudge your community their two nights of revelry.
Freedom,
Got it. Many thanks.
It’s OK to disregard the law and be an asshole to your neighbor as long as it is only two nights a year. (It’s not only 2 nights but whatever)
Doh! How could I not have known that?
I sure wish those folks who like to shoot off ammunition at 1:00 a.m. during the months of June and July, especially the ones I can’t trace, appreciated that their rights to revel were being violated by local ordinances.
When you call “fireworks” “ammunition,” you embarrass yourself, and you look like one of those wingnut liars who votes Democrat and creates definitions for words that are nowhere shared in common use. Don’t be that guy.
Before you say wingnuttery things like calling “fireworks” “ammunition,” consider if we went into combat against one another from 200 yards. I give you all the fireworks you want, while I get a .30-06 and 10 rounds. Which of our “ammunition” is likely to carry the day?
I would. You couldn’t see me for the smoke. And it would cause so much noise, that when the smoke cleared the police would arrive to arrest you.
In point of fact, in Southern Indiana (where we spend much of our time) they use ammunition on July 4, plus or minus 30 days. Revelers occasionally die because of that.
Huh? Try reading before responding.
Beats me. Seems like a lesson in mutual understanding all men learn growing up. Lots of people want to drive down the street where they hold the gay pride parade, but we just suck it up, find another way around, and don’t call them “assholes.”
Stuart, it’s clearly a matter of common sense that the desires of the frail, timid, and weak should not receive audience or deliberation in legislative chambers. – See more at: https://www.masson.us/blog/tibbs-on-fireworks-regulation/comment-page-1/#comment-1249155
Freedom, these people are deserving of the same protection as all other citizens. Unless you wish to default to brutism and anarchy, which I think is your easy impulse behind your disingenious nom de blog.
Don’t change the subject, Carlito. We’re talking about fireworks, so you have no foundation for interjecting”protection” into the discussion, any more than you would have cause to meddle in the peoples’ use of rubber bands.
Fireworks are noisy; they’re fun; they’re overwhelmingly enjoyed by heterosexual males very unlikely to be liberals. That is, you ain’t part of that party. That’s why you don’t like them.
This farcical complaint about fireworks is entirely a cultural beef.
“This farcical complaint about fireworks is entirely a cultural beef.”
Your right to enjoy your “culture” ends the moment you launch an unguided incendiary device and, best case, send my kids running and screaming for their parents. I’m all for the individual doing whatever they want, but that or any ability ends when it disrupts or in any way endangers others.
That the allowed use of fireworks depends on rain conditions in the weeks leading up to the Fourth of July tells the amount of harm they are capable of. If they were not dangerous, they would not be banned when conditions are dry, no?
Lots of people love to go see a fireworks show done by the pros. A far smaller number enjoys that guy in the neighborhood who blew a few hundred dollars on fireworks and decided after a few beers to set them off in a residential neighborhood when everyone else is in bed because he’s either too sauced or too self-centered to understand he’s being a dick.
“send my kids running and screaming for their parents”
That happens, when? Like when someone deposits a tin can in the regular trash can? Buy your kid some artillery, and teach him how to return fire.
“That the allowed use of fireworks depends on rain conditions in the weeks leading up to the Fourth of July tells the amount of harm they are capable of. If they were not dangerous, they would not be banned when conditions are dry, no?”
So long showers and kiddie pools are dangerous? Those are banned, too, when it’s dry. Don’t use the edict of an ignorant meddling government dunce as an argumental foundation for further instruction by ignorant meddling government dunces.
“Lots of people love to go see a fireworks show done by the pros.”
Lots of people enjoy watching porn done by the pros, too, but as with most things, most fun is homemade.
“Buy your kid some artillery, and teach him how to return fire.”
Yes, I should buy my 6 and 3 year old kids fireworks and have them return fire. What on earth was I thinking? Obviously, escalating the situation to the inevitable outcome is the right thing to do.
By the way, Mr. Zimmerman, do your lawyers know you post here?
“Lots of people enjoy watching porn done by the pros, too, but as with most things, most fun is homemade.”
Good analogy since, pro or amateur, you still have to take it inside. You can’t just copulate on the front yard because you think you’re great at it and the world would benefit from watching you.
If this were a face to face conversation with a bunch of guys on a street corner, someone would have said to “Whatever…” to “Freedom” long ago, and everyone but would have gone home, leaving “Freedom” to mutter nonsense to himself.
“If this were a face to face conversation with a bunch of guys on a street corner”
The “bunch of guys” would beat up the wimp trying to ban fireworks while calling him a bunch of “intolerant” names.
The Real World of men isn’t full of NPR listeners.
P.S. What is this, a movie? When was the last time a “bunch of guys” hung out on the street corner? Guys now live in subdivisions where there are no corners and no sidewalks on corners. They’d be standing in someone’s lawn.
You staying up late watching West Side Story, again?
No we have freedom chest pounding about “real men,”employing the “Real Scottsman” fallacy. Does his logic ever work?
And as far as changing the subject, you made the ludicrious statement that the timid, frail and weak deserve no protection in the legislature. I , and nearly all human beings, believe they are entitled to such.
Carlito, everyone knows that Liberals aren’t viewed as real men. That’s life.
Sir, you make a lot of sense. I stand in awe, freedumb.
Funny thing. 9:50 PM. Just outside I 465 in greater Indianapolis.
Sitting in my office and hearing lots of ka booms.
What do you think Freedom?
Should I shoot back?
Get yourself a few bricks of your favorite fireworks, and join in.
Zimmerman’s not guilty. Going to be lots of fireworks, tonight. Celebration might carry on for a while, so you sensitive types should get some earplugs.
http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-msnbc-is-trayvon-martins-dead-body-753370712
Sure that will get your party started.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/86809463/Trayvon-Martin-s-NO-LIMIT-NIGGA-Tweets-The-Daily-Caller
“Damn were u at a nigga needa plant.” -Trayvon Martin
“I’ll slap a girl if she said suck my toes wtf, she must be giving some great dome for some shit like that” -Id.
Which, obviously, Mr. Zimmerman knew before he got out of the car.
Barney Fife wannabe ignored the dispatcher, got out of the car, initiated a confrontation, proceeded to get his butt kicked in said confrontation, then shot the kid because he couldn’t take the butt-kicking he asked for. That he got off on charges due to prosecutorial incompetence does not change that.
To tie it back to this thread, just because you think you’re a pro, you’re probably not.
What a concise description of the incident. Zimmerman elevates the incident and manages to walk on a murder charge.